When was the last time you deeply felt your relationship to the world around you? To the land, to the plants, to the ways in which everything is interconnected?
In this philosophical and exploratory conversation with Karma Maymi the steward of Clary Sage Herbarium in Portland, Oregon, we discuss the concept of stewardship and what it means to be in relationship with our surroundings. Our discussion delves into the complexities of ownership, the role of conditioning in our lives, and the importance of patience and deep presence in how we show up in our communities.
This episode is an invitation to contemplate the interconnectedness of nature and our human experience, inviting listeners to recognize how beautifully devoted we all are, even when we inevitably fall short of our aspirations and expectations.
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Connect with Karma & Clary Sage Herbarium
Order supplies online at ClarySageHerbarium.com or visit the shop in Portland at 2901 NE Alberta St (and say hi to Karma in person!)
Follow Clary Sage Herbarium on Instagram @ClarySageHerbarium
Resources, References, and Links
Vipassana meditation. A practice focused on observing oneself without judgment, the name means “to see things as they really are.”
Turtle Island. “‘Turtle Island’ is the name for the lands now known as North and Central America. It is a name used by some Indigenous peoples who believe their land was formed on the back of a turtle.”
Permaculture. A framework striving for sustainable and ecologically responsible ways of living (that often includes growing food).
Transcript
Note: this transcript was generated by AI. Please forgive any malapropisms and misspellings. It’s the robot’s fault!
[00:00] Karma Maymi: When we’re able to lovingly be with the I’m doing my best and it’s not good enough. Yeah, then we’re so ready to receive information to make it more in alignment with what we’re trying to create. There’s no, like, I’m doing my best, and that’s okay. Oh, here’s information that actually makes me realize it’s not okay and I need to change. And there’s guilt and shame that I have to process before I can heal from that guilt and shame. And then look at that feedback and apply it. Like, that’s a whole mess that just gets removed. It’s like, I’m doing my best, it’s not good enough. And I’m present with that. Here’s some new information. Boom. Blossom into the next level of I’m doing my best in. So it’s like, you know, it’s just being sort of staged and ready for what’s next.
[01:02] Cate Blouke: Welcome to Settling is Bullshit, a sweary podcast about claiming your joy. If you are craving healthier boundaries, a greater sense of purpose, or an increased capacity to feel at ease in your own skin, then you are in the right place, my friend. I’m your host, Cate Blouke, joy activist and life coach to smart and sensitive humans. I’m here to offer you practical tools and playful encouragement to step forward and be your most awesome self. My hope is that each episode will leave you feeling a bit more empowered to make brave choices and claim your joy.
Hello, my dear. I’m really excited for today’s episode, and somewhat unusually, I actually do the official introduction while recording with Karma Maymi, steward of Clary Sage Herbarium here in Portland, Oregon. Karma and I have been wanting to get together to do this episode for quite a while, and we actually recorded this back in May, and it’s a really lovely kind of expansive philosophical exploration of some ideas, rather than a, like, targeted discussion where we give you the answer. We were really just kind of exploring together this idea of stewardship. We ended up talking about presence, about patience, and about, like, the ways that it’s really freeing when we can get to a place of understanding that we’re all doing the best we can and it’s. And it’s not actually good enough. And that, like, that’s okay. I. Karma brought this idea forward and I really enjoyed it and it was helpful to me to listen to, so I hope you enjoy it.
And just a little bit of housekeeping. If you didn’t yet listen to episode 50 about the fixed mindset, you missed out on some of my little life announcements. The main one being that I’m going to be going back to school in the fall and I’m really excited about it. And also this episode today has me thinking about like, how can I continue to be the steward of this podcast? Well, how can I continue intentionally steward this podcast? And my hope is that I’m still going to be able to do this weekly, but I’m going to check in with my bandwidth as we go and we may have to drop down to every other week. We’ll see.
[03:32] Cate Blouke: I’ll still be available for coaching on a limited basis and if you have any interest in that, please reach out. You can visit settlingisbullshit.com and book either a 30 minute free chemistry call or a $75 sample session to like really get a sense of what coaching with me would be like. Would love to connect with you as always. Please, like subscribe, share, follow, do all the things that are easy and free and supportive to help me keep this going. And if you enjoy listening to this and want to actually pitch in to help me keep this going, I have set up a Patreon. The lowest monthly membership is $5 a month and it would be incredibly helpful and supportive to me. (Shout out to David for being the first one to subscribe. Thank you so much, buddy. I appreciate you!) And you’ll also get a monthly update on what’s going on behind the scenes for both me and my personal life and the podcast. And with that, I will turn it over to myself and Karma.
I am here with Karma Maymi, steward and owner of Clary Sage Herbarium, a bulk medicinal herb store with a spiritual aura here in Portland, Oregon. And I am so excited that you’re sitting across the table from me. Cause we’ve been wanting to do this for a while and then the universe finally aligned. And I love your shop. It’s just so lovely to walk into. I like that description of a spiritual aura. Cause it just really is the warm hug that I feel when I walk into that store.
[05:12] Karma Maymi: Yeah, it never gets old watching people walk up. Cause I can see people through the windows and the doors. I see a certain expression on their face as they walk up to the door and as they come in sometimes, often I see just a total transformation in their face, in their posture. I just, I love that. I love it.
[05:35] Cate Blouke: I really notice like when I walk into a space or when I walk into a shop of like, oh, this feels nice. And you call yourself the steward of Clary Sage Herbarium. And I am so curious to hear you talk a little bit more about, like, what that means and why that word. What’s there for you?
[05:56] Karma Maymi: That’s a really great question. And it’s important that I get better at answering it because. And it’s great that you’re asking me about it, because it’s a thing that I’ve just come into, and it’s just how I’m in my life and living my life, so it’s difficult for me to say this is what it is because I’m in the living question of it.
[06:21] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[06:22] Karma Maymi: I was remembering the first. The first memory I have of someone using this word.
[06:30] Cate Blouke: Right. So it’s stewardship as a concept.
[06:32] Karma Maymi: Yeah. Other than, like, Lord of the Rings.
[06:36] Cate Blouke: Oh, is it in Lord of the Rings?
[06:37] Karma Maymi: What’s his name?
[06:38] Cate Blouke: The.
[06:38] Karma Maymi: The steward of Gondor?
[06:40] Cate Blouke: Oh, yeah. I guess it is in there.
[06:42] Karma Maymi: Yeah. These. The. What’s his name? I forget.
[06:45] Cate Blouke: I don’t know.
[06:46] Karma Maymi: I forget. I think it starts with a D. It’s like Boromir and Faramir’s dad.
[06:50] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[06:51] Karma Maymi: Steward of Gondor. Okay. So.
[06:53] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[06:54] Karma Maymi: That’s, like, the first time ever. But it didn’t really mean anything. Yeah.
[06:57] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[06:57] Karma Maymi: In that context. Well.
[06:58] Cate Blouke: And I think of. Yeah. Like, I mean, when I think of the word steward, like the first. Because I have been reading British novels for a very long time, so there’s, like, stewards of the estate or there’s, like, servants who are the steward. But I, like, I’m. I’m excited to talk about this concept of, like, stewardship outside of Lord of the Rings in British mystery novels, like.
[07:18] Karma Maymi: In a lived experience kind of way.
[07:20] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[07:21] Karma Maymi: So I have this really great friend. He’s just sort of this wild man. And I would go to his space and he would have these epic crystals. Epic, epic crystals. And I would comment on them and how gorgeous they were, and he would say something about he feels really honored to be a steward of these crystals. And I’ve sat with that so much.
[07:48] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[07:49] Karma Maymi: Because it makes so much sense that in one moment, in really simple words, it gives us the opportunity to realize these are ancient things.
[08:00] Cate Blouke: Right.
[08:01] Karma Maymi: They’re ancient. And they will. They’ve been longer than us, and they will be longer than us.
[08:07] Cate Blouke: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve thought about that. So I am currently in the third home that I have been the steward of, a.k.a. homeowner. But, like, really thinking about, am I leaving these things better than I find them? Am I, like, making a contribution to this space that is going to be here after I leave it? That like somebody else built before I got here. And what I love about what you were just saying is like, it’s, it’s everything around us. Like I don’t daily think about like, oh, crystals have been here for thousands of years. Like this thing that I am holding in my hand is like hella older than I am. What lights you up about thinking about that?
[08:55] Karma Maymi: Well, that experience was the beginning.
[09:01] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[09:02] Karma Maymi: And I feel like that is something, it is the beginning. When you have something that’s so tangible and you can know a little bit about science and know a little bit about the formation of crystals and stone and rock. You can look at a mountain and you can wrap your head around this fact that this existed before and it will continue to exist after. That specific thought really helps open up my sense of time and sense of self.
[09:35] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[09:36] Karma Maymi: In a really epic way. Because I’m a curious person. And if someone is willing to open up to that level of expanse, they can really enter into this space of geologic time and come out of the, the, the self a little bit. There’s different ways to relate to this idea that are less like, oh, obviously I can see with my eyes that this is a rock. And I kind of have a sense of. In my. I fell on a rock one time and it hurt. I broke the rock. Did not. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, I, I can understand that, Wrap my head around it. So then when things are less tangible, Right. And maybe they get more complex, then how, how can that, how can we come into that felt sense of stewardship? Because the thing about Stu, like this understanding of what it is is what I found is that understanding really rests in the body.
[10:39] Cate Blouke: Well, yeah, So I guess like by stewardship, like before we get too into the sort of felt experience of it, is it like being in charge of caring for something?
[10:51] Karma Maymi: No.
[10:51] Cate Blouke: No. Oh, what is it?
[10:53] Karma Maymi: Cuz that’s.
[10:54] Cate Blouke: Cause like that’s what I think. Like I think I am. Like if I think of stewardship, I guess another way that I’ve thought about it is like being a channel for resources. Like being the vehicle through which things flow and taking responsibility for how I show up in or with or participate in that flow. You’re nodding your head. So like that’s more, that’s more the vibe you’re going for.
[11:21] Karma Maymi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what you described. So like, let’s, let’s just say stewardship is a sphere.
[11:28] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[11:28] Karma Maymi: What you just described is like one piece, one segment of the sphere.
[11:32] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[11:33] Karma Maymi: What you, what you described as the.
[11:36] Cate Blouke: Channeling of the flow.
[11:38] Karma Maymi: What led us into this particular line. So that was, like, one piece of it. And then now you’re getting more into the meat of what stewardship is.
[11:46] Cate Blouke: So the outer layer would be like, I own some. So me being a homeowner, like, I own something and I’m responsible for taking care of it. That’s sort of the. Like.
[11:55] Karma Maymi: That is, like, one way of looking at it. We are in a culture and society and a worldview that looks at things from the lens of ownership.
[12:07] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[12:08] Karma Maymi: And that could be a gateway for us being in that realm as going deeper and closer to this idea of stewardship. But it’s. We’re sitting at the bank of the river. We’re on the bank of a river, and the river is flowing, and this is just the flow of life and stuff and things and ideas and whatever, and they come in and out of our life and in and out of wherever we are at that spot on the river. And we tend that space. Ownership is a practical tool when it comes to, like, capitalism. And, well, you know, even outside of capitalism as well. It’s our bridge, you know, between us and the world. And in this moment that we’re in, in the culture and the society that we’re in, ownership is how we. Is. Is our access to stewardship, essentially.
[13:07] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[13:08] Karma Maymi: Conceptually speaking.
[13:09] Cate Blouke: Right, Right.
[13:10] Karma Maymi: So we’re like, I own this. Like, I take accountability for this.
[13:14] Cate Blouke: Right.
[13:15] Karma Maymi: Which is, like, in the direction. It’s not the thing.
[13:18] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[13:19] Karma Maymi: It’s. It’s definitely part of, like, the process of moving into stewardship.
[13:24] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[13:25] Karma Maymi: Because the thing that comes along with this way of thinking where it’s just like, I own this and I’m accountable for this. It can lend itself to guilt.
[13:36] Cate Blouke: Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, I was. The thing that was just going through my brain was like, yeah. Like, I own my car and I haven’t taken it in for its, like, oil change, and I haven’t gotten it cleaned in a while. And I feel bad about that.
[13:50] Karma Maymi: I feel.
[13:51] Cate Blouke: I’m like, man, I’m not playing. Yeah. Like, I’m not taking good care of my car. Well, I’m like, let’s not even talk about my teeth.
[14:00] Karma Maymi: See, that’s the thing.
[14:02] Cate Blouke: Yes.
[14:03] Karma Maymi: They’re like, when you’re at the bank of the river and things are flowing, there’s a flow. It’s just happening. You’re not responsible for what comes in and what goes out. You’re an agent. You can interact with it.
[14:23] Cate Blouke: Right. I can throw my fishing pole in. I could put a stick in. I could grab a Net.
[14:27] Karma Maymi: I could pile rocks here. You can, you know, sing to the river. You can poop in the river.
[14:34] Cate Blouke: You could poop in the river.
[14:37] Karma Maymi: Not a good idea.
[14:38] Cate Blouke: Yeah, probably not. I mean, I could see that wouldn’t be the most comfortable thing to do. Peeing in the river would totally make sense.
[14:46] Karma Maymi: Anyway, this is that we could really go deep with this metaphor. But just the fact, like, there’s just nature, right? Like, it’s just nature. And, like, you maybe only have sand on your riverbank right now. Like, you maybe only have rocks on your riverbank right now, and you also haven’t. You’re an agent of what resources you have at the riverbank. But in any one moment, you have what you have.
[15:12] Cate Blouke: Right.
[15:13] Karma Maymi: And that’s. That’s not like, fault is not part of the equation of stewardship. It’s about, like, this is where ownership can go so much deeper. This is where accountability can become. This intimacy with the moment and this intimacy with the thing. It’s very transactional to be like, I own you car, and I am supposed to. It’s my responsibility to pay my end of the thing and make sure that you make all of your appointments on time with maintenance.
[15:47] Cate Blouke: Right, right, right.
[15:48] Karma Maymi: But then we’re, like, not being authentic with ourselves. And what is in this moment on the bank of the river. It’s not just the car is not the only thing here. There’s, like, a whole complex ecosystem of life that is happening. And that’s me sort of anthropomorphizing.
[16:07] Cate Blouke: Anthropomorphizing my car. I mean, Peter, like, I anthropomorphize him also. And thinking about it, it’s like, you know, I don’t get the sense that, like, my car is upset with me, that it’s dirty.
[16:21] Karma Maymi: Like, you know, but even then, like, then there’s.
[16:27] Cate Blouke: Is this a less awesome metaphor?
[16:29] Karma Maymi: Well, now. Now we’re getting into the realm of feelings which. Which matter.
[16:35] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[16:36] Karma Maymi: And are important. And we want everyone to, like, feel good.
[16:41] Cate Blouke: Yes. At least I do, usually.
[16:45] Karma Maymi: Yeah. Whoever we chooses to be in this moment.
[16:49] Cate Blouke: Right, right, right, right.
[16:51] Karma Maymi: We want people to feel good. But that is not part of stewardship.
[16:55] Cate Blouke: Okay?
[16:56] Karma Maymi: Just feeling good is not part of stewardship. It’s taking into account the complex system I happen to. Just because of the work that I do, I think of things as an ecosystem.
[17:10] Cate Blouke: Right.
[17:11] Karma Maymi: And, you know, it doesn’t need to. It’s just a system. Me thinking of it as alive, it just makes things a little more fluid and mysterious because you just don’t Know everything. Like, you’re like, this is a machine and this is just what it is. But, like, there’s like, a lot of complex things that are happening. Like, one thing that I was thinking about is it’s an example of the sort of overzealous coming into stewardship when it comes to land practices. We come in and we want to take care of land, and then we end up villainizing invasives. So it’s when we start to look at things and we’re like, this is bad. This good. This bad. This good, this bad.
[17:58] Cate Blouke: Right. These of species are bad. They’re not allowed. They shouldn’t be here. This thing that was here before they showed up, that’s good. We have to protect it. And getting into sort of a black and white, like. Right. Like, even. Okay. But to go back to my sweet car, like, clean cars are good, cluttered cars are bad. Right. I’m doing the same fucking thing. Okay.
[18:20] Karma Maymi: It’s natural. It’s a really deep condition. Not like deep, deep, deep beyond capitalism. You know, Is this just like. Right. This is. This is our body, our system, our like, primal self trying to protect ourselves.
[18:34] Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[18:34] Karma Maymi: So it’s even that it’s not like, primal system bad.
[18:40] Cate Blouke: Right. It just is. Right. So it just is. Okay. So in the ecosystem, that is if we’re being. Well. Okay, but, like, should we be a good steward? Like, I want to be a good steward. I mean, maybe in general, I just, like, want to be good, but I guess, like, what does it mean? Maybe good isn’t the word. To be a, like, loving or responsible steward. What would the adjective be?
[19:07] Karma Maymi: For me, it’s deep and aware.
[19:13] Cate Blouke: Ooh. Yeah. An intentional steward.
[19:15] Karma Maymi: Yeah. Wow. That. You know, it’s so amazing when for those or anyone who really goes in and investigates their life.
[19:28] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[19:29] Karma Maymi: And has a way that they want to be. And then is in a process of comparing or asking the question of how do I live in this way that I want to be and is alive in that question. And investigating what’s happening inside. It’s so amazing to uncover ways that we live unintentionally.
[19:52] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[19:54] Karma Maymi: And it’s. It’s inevitable for the same reasons that we’re just. You know, there’s. There’s so much that’s just conditioned and con. It’s like, again, conditioning. It’s not like conditioning bad.
[20:05] Cate Blouke: Right.
[20:06] Karma Maymi: You know, it’s just. It’s actually amazing. It’s actually so amazing how our systems have conditioned us to survive.
[20:15] Cate Blouke: Right, Right.
[20:17] Karma Maymi: And as we’ve been conditioned to Survive. And then we come into awareness of, wow, this is. This pattern was put there to survive. And right now it’s keeping me from being in a deeper relationship with X.
[20:33] Cate Blouke: Right. Yeah.
[20:34] Karma Maymi: You know, whether friendship or work or self or whatever. And no matter who doesn’t. No matter how perfect their life is, they’ll find it.
[20:44] Cate Blouke: Oh, yeah, right. I mean, because like you said, like, conditioning is what allows us to survive. There’s entirely too much information to process at all times for us to be able to function. If we didn’t have things within our system that was like, oh, this is how this works. This is how this works. This is how I show up here. This is what I do. So that we’re not consciously thinking about, like, how to move my finger at all times.
[21:06] Karma Maymi: Right. And when. When we turn towards the. Our garden of being, and then we find these things that we’ll be like, when. That’s an invasive. Right. If we see this conditioning arise, we’re like, thing I don’t like.
[21:21] Cate Blouke: Right.
[21:22] Karma Maymi: And we don’t. We don’t ask any questions. We just rip it out and we. We devote ourselves to just ripping it out whenever it arises. It’s. It’s interesting because we have somewhere we’re trying to go, and we want to get there fast. We just want to be there already, but we forget that everything. All the answers are in front of us.
[21:50] Cate Blouke: Hmm.
[21:52] Karma Maymi: And this thing that’s. That’s getting ripped out. Ripped out. Ripped out. Could be part of the solution and. Or there could be something in the process of asking the question and doing the investigation. Why is this here?
[22:10] Cate Blouke: Mm.
[22:11] Karma Maymi: That will get us where we’re going.
[22:15] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[22:16] Karma Maymi: Like right now. You know, like, not like, oh, I’m trying to get somewhere, but, like, actually. Oh, wow. No, here I am. Here it is. Here is the answer. And this is. It’s all. I feel like this is all very vague.
[22:29] Cate Blouke: Yeah, I was about. Well, I was about to say, like, what would be an example in your life or experience of kind of what you’re talking about?
[22:37] Karma Maymi: Yeah. I wanna share an experience I had on my meditation course.
[22:43] Cate Blouke: Yeah. Cause you just got back from, like, eight days of silent meditation, right? Yeah. Oh, my God. Mad props to you. Thank you. That’s so long. And I’m excited to hear about it.
[22:54] Karma Maymi: It’s. It was my fourth or fifth course.
[22:56] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[22:57] Karma Maymi: It’s taken a long time to cultivate, but I don’t know how relatable it’s gonna be, but I’ll just trust and I’ll share it. So. So there’s two, there’s two parts of this, this sit. It’s a Vipassana meditation course. The first few days are just concentration meditation where you’re just aware of the breath going in and out of your nose and you bring that focus like so narrow. Oh, it’s totally maddening. Yeah, it’s totally maddening. But I, I, I had the kind of an amazing experience of actually being able to keep a continuous attention which is, was totally mind blowing. Like even a minute of full.
[23:38] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[23:38] Karma Maymi: Just focused attention before is just like, you know, I was just like, oh, this is just not possible. But anyway, I’m gonna keep trying.
[23:44] Cate Blouke: Yeah, well, I mean, and that’s, and that’s like what meditation is, right? Is that we like, we try and we try and we try and then we get it and then we go back and then we try and you know.
[23:54] Karma Maymi: Yeah, yeah. There’s so much here that we could go off into. But so I did that, there was that for three days and then there was the Vipassana practice which is where the attention goes throughout the system. Gans the system. And the goal of Vipassana is to grow in awareness and in equanimity. Equanimity meaning not reacting, not getting lost in pleasure or getting lost in pain. Just not just being present and seeing things purely as they are. So in that moment where we started Vipassana, I realized my programming from before of what I thought equanimity was, was not equanimity.
[24:49] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[24:50] Karma Maymi: It was actually a suppression of the authentic experience that I was having. I was just thinking bad.
[25:00] Cate Blouke: Right, right. Equanimity is just tuning it all out.
[25:03] Karma Maymi: Well, I was, well I was like, wow. I, I realized that everything I’d been practicing before was just this total suppression of my authentic experience. And so having that awareness in that moment, mm. I could have just been present with that awareness.
[25:22] Cate Blouke: Right.
[25:22] Karma Maymi: I could have just been in that curiosity of like, oh wow, I thought it was this way and it’s actually not that way.
[25:31] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[25:32] Karma Maymi: However, it took me, it took me some time to recover from what I actually did. I’m still in that process. What I actually did. What? And this is old patterning for me. Equanimity is a lie. These people are not balanced. Everyone is suppressing all of their feelings and just denying their authentic experience. Get out of here. So I was just like, you know, I was going, I went through my, you know, I was still doing like there was an awareness.
[26:07] Cate Blouke: Uh huh.
[26:09] Karma Maymi: There was definitely an awareness. And that carried me through the, the whole Sit. But I had so much intense experience that I then had to sit through it because I was just like, I was, I was mad. Yeah, I was mad. I was mad actually at myself. But I was totally projecting it onto everyone I ever, ever claimed to be equanimous. You know, it was just like, this is a huge lie. Yeah.
[26:37] Cate Blouke: Oh man. Not, not around this specific topic, but like deeply relatable.
[26:43] Karma Maymi: Right.
[26:43] Cate Blouke: So like. Okay, can you bring us back to stewardship then? Around, around this?
[26:51] Karma Maymi: Yeah, yeah, totally. So for me and my own experience of stewardship, it pairs so gorgeously with this practice which is now just part of my life. You know, it’s natural for us to react.
[27:11] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[27:11] Karma Maymi: It’s natural for us to say good, bad, that’s normal and that’s natural. And it’s part of what is there.
[27:18] Cate Blouke: Right.
[27:19] Karma Maymi: And we must be with what is there. And that is the deeper, that is the deep expression of what we call ownership. That takes ownership to a profound level. Not just this societal. I have this thing, I own this thing, but I’m part of this thing.
[27:46] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[27:47] Karma Maymi: I am part of this thing. And ooh.
[27:50] Cate Blouke: I, I feel like I just had a felt sense of now what you might be talking about with stewardship. Right. It’s like that I’m a part of this rather than separate from, rather than. This is good, this is bad. But is it like this sense of like radical presence and participation?
[28:13] Karma Maymi: Sure.
[28:14] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[28:17] Karma Maymi: Yeah. I have been so guided by being alive in the question.
[28:24] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[28:25] Karma Maymi: Whatever it is. And getting really well rooted in the question, whatever it is, because it, it helps support us in coming into a moment to moment experience of which is what time is. And out of a. Planning for the future, regretting the past, they inform each other. Right. We, we need to get, we need to learn. We have so much resource of our experience, this delicious wealth of, of information for us and you know, part of holding the dream of what’s possible for us and what’s around is part of living really in the moment because we get to move towards that right now.
[29:09] Cate Blouke: Right.
[29:10] Karma Maymi: And the way that the world is right now, it is totally radical. It’s radical from a certain perspective. And it’s important to understand that it’s radical from a certain perspective. But when you’re totally in it, it’s just what is. And it’s really important to reach that place. It’s totally cool and totally amazing to look at and experience from the outside and say that’s amazing. That is overwhelmingly, intensely amazing. That’s cool. And it’s important to Be able to reach the place of this is. This just is. Because if we stay in this place of, we don’t want to romanticize the truth. We don’t want to be like fawning over the truth. We want to be in the truth.
[30:01] Cate Blouke: Right? Okay. So for example, you know, you told me you went on this like eight day silent retreat, and I’m like, oh my God, that is amazing. I could never do that.
[30:10] Karma Maymi: That’s a really common response. And it’s like so hilarious, right?
[30:16] Cate Blouke: Because like, if I think about like a. I’m not, you know, inept at meditating, but it’s hard for me to like put myself in that situation. But if I, if I, if I like get present today and I were to imagine myself like trying to do that, I’m just aware that like, it is a challenging practice that doesn’t necessarily feel good the whole time.
[30:35] Karma Maymi: It also doesn’t get easier. Like, that’s the funny thing is that like there it’s like, it’s the, the thing that like, the, the further you get along in it, the more you realize like, what a joke of like, what I thought, you know, coming onto the first 10 day meditation course, they put the people who are like experienced, strong meditators in the front and all of us, like anxious people in the back. And I’ll have you know that this eight day was an experienced meditator course. I was way back. And it’s funny because there, you know, you’ll get like the first three, maybe the first row, probably not really. Just like the first, you know, first couple really experienced meditators. And they sit like stones. They’re the stone people. And in the back we’re like, what are they doing? I’m just like, what are they doing? What are they, what are they doing? It’s the same thing.
[31:30] Cate Blouke: Like, they’re so amazing at meditating.
[31:32] Karma Maymi: They’re like, what are they doing? Like, they’re literally just doing the same exact. There’s nothing different. Yeah, they just happen to be sitting still because they understand something, right. And from their body, you know, there’s a felt sense of like, I’m doing this right? You know, like I’m here to do this. And metaphorically speaking, as I move from the back more towards the the front, metaphorically speaking, all that’s happening is like, I’m getting something kind of understanding something, right?
[31:59] Cate Blouke: In a felt way.
[32:00] Karma Maymi: Yeah, yeah. Like, whoa. It has to be felt. You know, like the nail in the coffin, like 10 years ago for me in this practice was when I came into a felt sense of. I was like, what would it look like for me to stop drinking? I’m just, like, curious, you know, not like, oh, I should stop drinking, but, like, I’m just wondering, what would it look like for me to stop drinking? And I got to this point where I realized everything had to do with other people. This was after, like, very patiently, very, like, curiously, like, what would that look like for me to stop drinking?
[32:33] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[32:33] Karma Maymi: And then all the reasons for me not to stop drinking came up relatable. Yeah. And then, like, I, like, landed in with this felt sense. It was a felt sense. These all have to do with others, right? All have to do with others. And I don’t accept that. Like, I don’t know. I was talking with some people about, like, the magic of manifesting and how it’s kind of mysterious the other day where it’s like, there’s just this felt sense of, like, this. You know, it’s not like you can just be like, oh, I want this thing, like, and then. But there’s like, this mysterious alignment of things where it’s like, boom, this thing.
[33:12] Cate Blouke: Yeah. I think what I’m absorbing is this notion of stewardship as. Yeah. Like. Of, like, participating and listening and, like, conscious awareness of. Of the flow, of the sort of interconnection, but, like, really turning within and honoring what’s. What’s here and what’s true for me, rather than letting kind of those stories or that conditioning of, like, oh, well, people want me to do this or this or that or the other thing. And, like, getting centered and, like, listening to what my system is trying to tell me.
[33:58] Karma Maymi: Yeah. There’s kind of two parts. There’s the tending of the self. Like, we need to feel safe. Yeah, we need to feel safe. And then we can do that reflection work of being really present with all of the shoulds and all of the needs and all of the reactions and the responses. And then we can also do research and decide what we’re going to use as our guides and our information to move forward. And then we act and we act committed to our best resources that we have available. This is the best that I have right now. And I’m going to act in devotion to that. Not, you know, knowing that I’m going to come back and I’m going to get more information from the action.
[34:48] Cate Blouke: Right. Or more resources or whatever. Right. That, like, things are going to change. The river is going to continue to flow, and what is now won’t be tomorrow or the next day, because that’s how time works, but that I get to choose how kind of consciously I show up and participate. Yeah.
[35:10] Karma Maymi: And it’s so important to be so. In that. Because we are agents. We’re human agents, every one of us, and we have the capacity to do our best.
[35:24] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[35:25] Karma Maymi: We have that. That’s an option for every single person. They can do their best for that moment.
[35:31] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[35:31] Karma Maymi: And it’s so important to hold that in a really devoted way because it’s. We want to be that or this or there already. And, And. And just the act of. Of wanting that, like, you can really get. Look inside and see how much pain that causes.
[35:53] Cate Blouke: Yeah. Right. Because for me, I know, like, I look ahead of, like, oh, well, I. I want to be here. I want, you know, like, whatever, like this many Instagram followers or whatever, this many people to listen to the podcast because I think it’s genuinely helpful. And, like, I have this vision of, like, it being this sort of, like, helpful resource, and I want to, like, already be over there. And then I feel sad and I compare myself to other people and it sucks. As opposed to just sitting and being like, wow, like, I get to do this awesome thing and to do my best and to show up and to, like, really honor that. Like, whoever is listening right now is gonna hear something that they need to hear. And, like, I’m doing my best today. And one of my very favorite little prayers that I. That I picked up in 12 step recovery is grant me the willingness to do my best today and the serenity to believe it’s good enough. Right. Because I know for me, kind of the perfectionism can come in. Like, that conditioning can come in and, like, ruin my fucking day.
[36:56] Karma Maymi: Well, okay, this is actually really funny.
[36:59] Cate Blouke: Yay. I like funny things.
[37:02] Karma Maymi: Hopefully you agree that it’s funny.
[37:05] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[37:05] Karma Maymi: And this is just the nature of. Of the world right now is like, we are doing our best. It’s the best we can do, and it’s not good enough.
[37:17] Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah. No, collectively, it is not good enough.
[37:19] Karma Maymi: But even, like, even us in our own work, we’re continuously abandoned, you know, as we’re abandoning ourselves all the time. It’s not good enough. And that’s part of what’s here. You know, it’s like, we don’t need it to be good enough because we’re in our devotion. We’re so in our devotion, it’s not good enough. And it’s. It’s part of what’s here. So we don’t need to change what’s here. We don’t need to tell some fluffy story about what’s here. We can be what’s here. And even in what you said, you said you. You want people to like it because it’s good for people like that. That’s how there’s some information in this desire that you have for you, because that is golden. The you are in this work because it does good things for people.
[38:13] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[38:14] Karma Maymi: That is the end. Like, that is everything.
[38:17] Cate Blouke: Right.
[38:17] Karma Maymi: Because you are devoted to creating something beautiful for others and bringing joy into that. There’s nothing that needs to be achieved in that. You just are in it. Yeah.
[38:28] Cate Blouke: And when I can be in it, I do. I do have that, like, felt sense of, you know, I guess, like what we’re talking about as stewardship, but I would. I wouldn’t have used that term before, but it is this, like, participation in the flow and a sense of enoughness.
[38:47] Karma Maymi: Well, you. You repeatedly come back to it and you are going to, you know, that’s. There’s not a question for you of if you’re gonna come back to it or not, whether you’re feeling in the flow or not. You are going to take one step and then you’re gonna take the next step. You don’t need to ask yourself if that’s gonna happen.
[39:04] Cate Blouke: Right.
[39:05] Karma Maymi: So you don’t need to have that feeling, that felt sense of flow or that felt sense of alignment. You are on this path and you are doing that work. Whether you feel not good about how many people are looking at it yesterday or whatever, it doesn’t. It’s not. None of that is relevant to what you’re doing because you are. You are doing it.
[39:28] Cate Blouke: Oh, there’s a lot of freedom in that. Thank you for that.
[39:30] Karma Maymi: Yeah, it’s. It’s really like, there’s so much freedom in it. There’s so much freedom out of coming out of the transaction of the gift of our life and that we are so, like, this realization, like, people don’t realize how unequivocally devoted they are to the beautiful things that they do.
[39:55] Cate Blouke: Yeah, they don’t.
[39:56] Karma Maymi: I love getting the chance to just, like, touch on that. When folks come into my shop and they tell me about their story and they’re just like, I’m doing this, this, this, and this. And this is. I experienced this and I’m like, wow, you are so, like, you experienced all this crazy stuff and you are trying to do your best for this person and you’re trying to come home to yourself and like, wow, I get to just, like, see that and be like, you are so devoted. You are so devoted, and then you’ve come to ask the plants for support. How amazing. That’s so amazing.
[40:31] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[40:33] Karma Maymi: And I understand. We want relief, right?
[40:36] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[40:37] Karma Maymi: We want to feel good, but it’s also just understanding, like, when we get those moments of validation, we love them, we want more of them, and the.
[40:48] Cate Blouke: Dopamine happens, and we’re like, I want more.
[40:50] Karma Maymi: Yeah, totally. And. And that’s also. That’s part of what’s there, right?
[40:55] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[40:55] Karma Maymi: Um, and just remembering that, like, our devotion is beyond that. Like, we are. We are going to keep moving in that direction, and it’s nice. And we get to eat it up and, like, put it, like, frame it and, like, put it on the wall and be like, you know, look at it whenever we need to. But there are some times when we’re so deep in the work, we can look at that picture and feel nothing because we’re in the drudgery of it.
[41:26] Cate Blouke: Right.
[41:27] Karma Maymi: We don’t have any feelings. We’re like, that’s nice. You know? Like, that’s nice. That person said that thing to me that one time.
[41:33] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[41:34] Karma Maymi: It’s not really showing up in my experience, because you’re in the. You’re. You’re focusing on your work, you know, but that.
[41:41] Cate Blouke: But that you keep doing it, right. That I, like, I guess what I’m hearing in that is that, like, part of just the experience is that, you know, like, some days you’re gonna get the, like, nice comment and the cookie, and it’s gonna give you the dopamine, and you’re gonna feel good. And then some days you’re gonna be, like, in the work, and that’s gonna be. Feel. Feel distant. But in either case, like, we’re still putting one foot in the front of the front of the other and showing up. And. And I think part of what I’m taking away is this idea that, like, it doesn’t serve anyone for me to be labeling the dopamine hit as either good or bad. Right. Because I can. It can go either way. I can be like, yay, people are praising me. Or, like, it’s bad that I need that. Right? Like, you know, or, like, yay. I really am fixated on audio editing right now, and it’s fun for me. Or like, oh, my God, why is this taking so long? I hate this.
[42:40] Karma Maymi: Right.
[42:42] Cate Blouke: Like, but that there’s this sense of kind of zooming out and connecting with my, like, inner sense of integrity and value and devotion. I really like that word, devotion to the work. That, like, those aspects of it are just gonna, like, come in. They’re gonna, like, flow. And my job is to just, like, continue to do my best and, like, hold those in my awareness without adding so many layers of good, bad, label to them.
[43:17] Karma Maymi: Yeah. And. And that also opens itself and lends itself to so much more flow because. Because when we realize or when we’re. When we’re able to lovingly be with the I’m doing my best and it’s not good enough.
[43:33] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[43:34] Karma Maymi: Then we’re so ready to receive information to make it more in alignment with what we’re trying to create. There’s no, like, I’m doing my best, and that’s okay. Oh, here’s information that actually makes me realize it’s not okay and I need to change. And there’s guilt and shame that I have to process before I can heal from that guilt and shame. And then look at that feeling feedback and apply it. Like, that’s a whole mess that just gets removed. It’s like, I’m doing my best. It’s not good enough. And I’m present with that. Here’s some new information. Boom. Blossom into the next level of I’m doing my best. So it’s like, you know, it’s just being sort of staged and ready for what’s next. A friend I was talking with about stewardship on my way over here.
[44:35] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[44:35] Karma Maymi: Was highlighting that there are people who own the land, and they. They don’t have any concept of. Of stewardship, but something that everyone can relate to is beauty.
[44:52] Cate Blouke: Okay.
[44:53] Karma Maymi: And just the awe that comes from seeing a complex, intricate blossom of things that is a lush ecosystem.
[45:07] Cate Blouke: Right.
[45:07] Karma Maymi: And it’s expressed pretty well. This experience of awe. And also this sort of fundamental misunderstanding of human is separate from nature is expressed so well in how Westerners arrived on the scene on Turtle island or at whichever part of Turtle island, like, you name it. And they’re like, oh, it’s immaculate, like, untouched by humans.
[45:38] Cate Blouke: Right.
[45:39] Karma Maymi: Like, this is just, like. It’s just this. What it was just here. God’s hand. Right. Which, like, you know, is true, but it’s like the God’s hand of, like, the beauty of the complexity and the depth of relationships that we. We have. We do have with the ness of what we call the nature, you know, like, which is. And it’s interesting. It’s kind of come back or it’s in the process of coming back around. All native land practices got translated into white man language through permaculture, which is then, like, now being Implemented and utilized. And this friend who I was talking about said that she came onto a land she was stewarding, and she was like, oh, I just want to make it super permacultured out. And people who were not very in touch with land or the beauty of land would come to visit her and they would say it was life changing just to witness that depth of, you know, the. The chickens are connected to the cows are connected to the food. Maybe it’s the other direction. I’m not. I’m not from a culture.
[46:53] Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah.
[46:53] Karma Maymi: Knowledge.
[46:54] Cate Blouke: Yeah, me either. I mean, it’s. It’s all connected, is the headline there.
[46:59] Karma Maymi: Yeah. And like, the. The. The image that came up for me as she was saying, this is the opportunity to eat a blueberry off of the bush. Just being able to have that experience where we get to see that food comes from the earth and not just from a. Like, oh, I can think about it, but, like, actually, like, go pick greens and make a salad and just have that experience.
[47:24] Cate Blouke: Yeah. So what. What would be your, like, invitation to anyone who’s listening as we sort of wind down this. This conversation? Hmm.
[47:37] Karma Maymi: There are so many. I. As you can see, or anyone listening to this can tell I’m on a journey.
[47:49] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[47:49] Karma Maymi: That I’ve been on for a long time. And the part of my work has been finding, Getting rooted into the tangible, material realm.
[48:02] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[48:03] Karma Maymi: And the way that I found to do that is through plants. Working with plants and getting into my felt experience from tasting, Working with a plant, getting to know that plant, learning what my felt sense tells me about that plant, and then studying the plant and then sort of comparing the two, and then entering into dialogue with other people about that particular plant and then building relationships with the people who grow them. And that’s put me in a gorgeous position of participating in a very tangible way in the healing of this biosphere. Because things growing turn the wheel that we’re turning in the other direction. And there’s very little in the material realm that I see that actually turns that wheel progressively in the other direction of sequestering carbon and also of just coming into, you know, home to the earth, home to our bodies, home to ourselves, home to each other. The plants have that instruction. Of course, I have found a lot of. I found all the support in a meditation practice, and it’s so complete and cohesive. Anything that helps people feel safe and feel empowered to do their work and feel excited to participate in some solution, like a full solution, not something that’s just based on avoidance, because so much Is based on avoidance and then the patience. Like, patience. Wow. Yeah. So, oh, my gosh. Patience is everything. I don’t have any patience, so I have been grateful. On this particular meditation course, I came in touch with a concept of ardent patience.
[50:18] Cate Blouke: Ooh. What does that mean?
[50:20] Karma Maymi: Like, ardent. Just being like. Like a burning intensity. Because I’m a really intense person and it’s hard for me to think about engaging with just about anything in a passive way. And so this concept has come to me of an ardent patience of just like being with something, not needing to act. Because oftentimes action, that’s just action without an awareness of the environment or the container or whatever. Myself creates more work than what I’m trying to do. Like, there’s. There’s more. There’s so much to do at all. It’s better.
[51:01] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[51:03] Karma Maymi: To wait and just sit in that, like, intense, like, thing that’s making me want to do this or that or whatever.
[51:10] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[51:11] Karma Maymi: And just exercise my intensity of just being able to be with that, like, need to act, need to do something. And I can respond to that just as intensely.
[51:23] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[51:23] Karma Maymi: It’s like a very intense patience.
[51:26] Cate Blouke: Yeah. I’m gonna take that little nugget away with me. Is ardent patience.
[51:32] Karma Maymi: Yeah.
[51:33] Cate Blouke: Yeah. Well, Karma, thank you so much. One of my favorite questions to wrap up with. What brings you joy?
[51:40] Karma Maymi: What brings me joy? I love getting to see all the stages of the development of a thing. An intention, like a process. Like, I love it when people, like, go into challenging things and they resource themselves to do that. I’m just like, so beautiful. So beautiful. People don’t even know how beautiful they are. They’re just like, oh, I’m just doing this thing and it’s boring and whatever. And I’m lame. And I’m like, you’re amazing. You’re working so hard against really adverse circumstances. Like, we are so hard on ourselves because we do not realize how intense the current is working against us.
[52:34] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[52:34] Karma Maymi: We don’t understand how strong that is. And yet we are doing our best to stay true.
[52:41] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[52:42] Karma Maymi: So many people.
[52:44] Cate Blouke: Yeah.
[52:44] Karma Maymi: This is an amazing city to be in.
[52:48] Cate Blouke: Yes, it is.
[52:49] Karma Maymi: Like, Clary Stage Herbarium is a particularly super powered place because people come in and they’re. They share things and they’re like, oh, I guess that’s a lot of personal information. And I’m like, this is totally normal because we’re in the work of, like, the spiritual evolution of the soul and the healing of the body as they work together. And so it’s like you’re in good company. And so that we get to have a window into that. It’s like, like a glass bottom kayak. We’re just like. You get to like, see what’s happening for people. Yeah.
[53:22] Cate Blouke: That’s certainly one of my favorite things about coaching. Right. Is I get to, like, be there on the journey of, like, helping people see that they are amazing, even when they’re in the drudgery of making really big cool changes in their lives. Oh.
[53:38] Karma Maymi: And it, oh, it’s just. It’s so ordinary. It’s so normal. And just the fact that these amazing things, this amazing intention and effort is so normal is just blows my mind. Every day I’m just like, yes, yes.
[54:03] Cate Blouke: Oh, there we go. We will end today’s episode on a collective yes. You’re amazing. You’re doing amazing things, Karma says so.
[54:14] Karma Maymi: Yeah. So it is.
[54:15] Cate Blouke: And so it is. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please help me grow the podcast by subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing it with anyone you think would benefit from hearing it too. Your support means the world to me. If you’d like to get updates about new episodes, posts and offerings, please visit settlingisbullshit.com to subscribe to my newsletter. You can also find information there about working with me one on one to build your most amazing life. Until next time, remember that I believe in you and that you are fucking awesome.
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