Holding Out for Spiritual Partnership with Lisa Lewis-Cogswell

The path to genuine partnership can be rocky, full of potholes, and isn’t always well marked. It can be hard to hold onto hope and all too easy to pull over and settle for relationships that are okay enough. 

But! As we all know on this here podcast, settling is bullshit! And this episode offers a story of magic, love, and triumph over the long haul.

Coach Lisa Lewis-Cogswell met her husband in her forties – after a long journey of saying no to relationships that weren’t quite right and holding onto a vision of the spiritual partnership she knew was waiting for her. Theirs is a story of astounding synchronicities, the healing that happens in relationship, and waiting for the light at the end of a very long tunnel. 

We talk about what it feels like to surrender, to listen to your knowing, to open your heart, to cultivate hope, and to manifest the shit out of finding your person – even if it takes a couple of decades. Plus, the healing that happens when you do finally meet your match and have a safe place to dig deep.

Listen on your favorite podcast platform

Visit Lisa’s website: Heartspace Rising

Follow her on Instagram: @HeartspaceRising

Read the transcript below (with the usual caveat that it’s not fully precise, but it’s pretty close! Thanks, AI).

Transcript:

Cate Blouke: Well, Lisa, I am so excited to be here with you today and to hear your story of not settling in love, because I know for me, I need to hear this story, and I don’t imagine that I’m alone in that.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. There’s a lot of people out there who settle for less than what they deserve. Yeah.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, absolutely. We’ve known each other in sort of various coach training capacities, and so I’ve heard little bits of this story, but I’m really excited to kind of get the big, full version and to share it with listeners. So you have a big, beautiful love story to share with us today.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yes. And thank you for finally. So great to be here with you, Cate. You’re so fun. And I love that I’m sharing this story on here because I’ve been asked to share it for years in a bigger way, and I share it with people one on one when I can kind of hear it might resonate for them. You know, I definitely am maybe, I guess I would say a good example of what can happen when you don’t settle for less than what it is you want in relationship. Yeah.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. Okay, well, so to, like, spoiler alert, right? Lisa is very gloriously, joyfully, happily married to the man of her dreams, as I understand it. And that’s been quite a journey to get there.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. And, I mean, another disclaimer. Like, all relationships are work and have their ups and downs.

Cate Blouke: Right.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Like, and we hit our hardest part, actually, right after the, quote, honeymoon phase, we hit all of our stuff, but it was because of the things that happened in the beginning that reminded me, okay, this is my life partner. I need to hang in there. There were all the signs that this is the person. So don’t flee. Hang in there a little bit. Yeah. So, yeah. But we’ve been together now since 2011, so pretty long time. Yeah.

Cate Blouke: Beautiful. And I know in your work, you really dive into kind of relationships and cultivating love and being heart centered. Your business is called heart space rising.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Right? Yeah. It’s funny because even back before I met him, I was in graduate school at the time at this spiritual psychology school. I was in a PhD program, but I ended up getting pregnant and getting a master’s degree and going and being a mom at that point. But, yeah, I was writing my dissertation on spiritual partnership and relationship as a spiritual path, and that’s kind of always been my jam. I’m all about, like, how to build more love in the world, more connection, more trust, and especially now, right now, we’re in this, like, horrible place in the world of tipping point, but also beautiful place in the world of potential and possibility. Right? Yeah. For people to open their hearts to each other. Yeah. So, yeah.

Cate Blouke: Okay, so graduate program and spiritual partnership. I would love to hear more about that.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Okay, so that was transpersonal psychology. Spiritual psychology program, yeah. And it’s funny because my husband and I didn’t know each other back then, but we were both in similar kinds of programs, and we were kind of circling around each other in life. We found this out later, like, literally, we were in the same place at the same time at times, and we, like, retraced our life. Wait a minute. And that year you were there, you were in Sedona. Like, I was there too, and. Wait a minute. Okay. A psychic actually told me that my soulmate was here. I remember that back then, 17 years ago, you know, so we definitely were kind of in the same circles. And back then, I was into all kinds of, like, exploring spirituality. I was in my young twenties and, you know, just looking for the right spiritual path and always knew that I would end up with someone who would resonate with being on a journey and growth and personal development and things like that. So, like I said, I actually ended up having a child. I did not get buried. I knew that. I knew that it was the wrong person. And this is sort of on the theme of not settling. My whole family had been divorced, and I just had watched so many people in horrible marriages that I knew it could easily be that way. And I decided to be a single mom instead of getting married. So that was a big decision, right?

Cate Blouke: Yeah. What was that decision making process like? I imagine that was really a lot.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Good question. I think it’s like when you grow up seeing certain things in your life, like seeing bad relationships. I saw my mom always kind of, like, very dependent on having a man to be happy, but not necessarily the right men. And I just. I know I made a conscious and probably unconscious now that I’ve learned so much about trauma decision to just be alone rather than be with the wrong person. So I went into this kind of hyper independence, which it is a trauma response, right?

Cate Blouke: Yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: But that left me kind of in this, like, I’m an independent woman. I don’t need a man kind of energy. And then I was alone for many years, sometimes dating, but I never wanted to settle. And that was, like, my motto. I was like, I’m not going to get married just to get married. I would see women do that and like, okay, I got to have the kids. You know, clock is ticking, and they would kind of follow that journey and then it would not end well. Usually I didn’t have anyone around me that was having what I would call, like a, a conscious relationship where the purpose of coming together was to grow and become better human beings.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, that sounds like a really yummy relationship paradigm, right?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. And when you have that paradigm, it kind of limits your pool because a lot of people, especially in their twenties and thirties, are on a path of kind of something else. And I was alone, I was lonely. I was sometimes dating. But I knew that I wanted a relationship where I would feel a certain way and live a certain way. And it wasn’t matching that conventional narrative. So I did a lot of things during, I’d say mostly during my late twenties and thirties. I did a lot of things to kind of put out the, you know, the intention and the, and the message and the vibe of what I wanted to create, you know, feeling.

Cate Blouke: Were you looking for in relationship that you didn’t find?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: That’s a good question. I think it’s, you know, like everyone, everyone wants to feel like they can be their authentic self and also to align and have similar goals and values of what it is you want, you’re here to do in this world. And I always knew that I needed to be with a partner who would be along that with me. So I kind of had this sense of, like, I knew my husband was into holistic health and nutrition. I knew he was like a spiritual guy. I knew I could feel him. I knew he loved nature like me. And so, yeah, there was a lot about him that I kind of felt already. And so part of the practices I would do back then just involved a lot of feeling into that feeling of what I wanted to be in. And, you know, sometimes, like some prayer or ceremony around that, and that ends up showing up later when we met. Like, funny things happened when we finally met.

Cate Blouke: So, like, yeah, how long was that? I mean, at what point did you kind of feel, okay, I have this partner out there. I have this sort of sense of him. How old were you when that became clear? And then how long did it take to actually get there?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, so I was getting really clear on that. In my thirties, still holding to this motto of, I’m not going to settle, but I’m also alone and getting discouraged by dating. By my early forties, I had gone through periods of time where I would just not date at all and just be alone, be okay with that kind of, but lonely. By my early forties, I was dating and even heartbroken because I had just been with a narcissist, which was a very interesting experience of, you know, being kind of eroded from within.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, interesting is one way to put it.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. So I was recovering from that, and then, you know, I. I had been, like, doing the online dating apps. There was no swiping at that time. Thank God. I don’t think I could have lived through this swipe.

Cate Blouke: It’s pretty terrible. Like it is. It has absolutely gamified human connection, and it’s demoralizing, for sure.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. I’m very grateful that I didn’t have to make that choice because I’m not sure I could have done it and I would have had to meet him some other way. But back then, it was just online dating, and it was still getting pretty popular. So I did that, but I would turn it on and then turn it off. I would date people, get really discouraged, like, oh, my God, is too much work. I can’t do this. I would turn it off and just starting to get into this rut of, like, kind of giving up, and then I fully turned it off. And the way the story starts to go on this, and this is after years of doing this intention work and prayer and really knowing a lot about him and really doing a lot of inner work around making the list. The list everybody talks about. Make your list of, like, everything you want in someone and what the deal breakers are and what you have to offer. Right. And I had this list, and, like, this happened later after I met him. We were cleaning the garage out one time. We were about to move, and I found that list, and I handed it to him and I said, look, it’s you. Yeah.

Cate Blouke: Okay, so before we get to the, like, beautiful unfolding of the meet cute, like, how. How did you navigate those years? Like, how did you hold on to that hope?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, I think it was like, it was really staying tuned into knowing he was out there and just getting a real sense of this person exists. I’m not just making this up in my head. And so it really is a leap of trust and surrender to even keep believing that and to keep dating and people who are clearly not that and go on sometimes side journeys of like, oh, this seems fun. And then being like, okay, back to the.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. So was that kind of how you. If you had sort of this, like, clear sense of, like, okay, this person is out there, and then you would go on side quests with other people? Was it usually like, well, this isn’t really it, but it could be fun for a while. Is that kind of the vibe? Yeah, it would happen.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. Really fun and sometimes destructive, especially to my self esteem, but, yeah. Like that.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. Yeah. Can relate. I can relate to all of this. For listeners, part of the reason I’m excited to have lisa on is because what she is describing is where I am in my journey prior to meeting my person. So this is gonna be great. It’s gonna be great. This is a story of hope and triumph.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. I would say there was two things that I would usually feel in dating the not right people. It was either I was bored and not very interested and just sort of like, ah, I’d rather just be home alone right now than just kind of going through the motions. I would feel that, or it was something really exciting and fun, but it felt more like an addiction. Right. Like. Like a rollercoaster ride. And that didn’t feel, like, healthy. And I knew that wasn’t what I was looking for. So the point at which it all started changing was when I will say, I feel like I clearly remember a big surrender from my heart. It was after being really discouraged and after kind of feeling like it was sort of like giving up, but it was also filled with this sense of trust and letting go, and it was okay. You know, I’ve been alone so long, I’m gonna actually be okay. I can. It can just be, like, me and God, spirit, whatever. Whatever your belief system is. Like, I’ll be okay doing this life alone rather than being with the wrong person, and I’m okay with that. And I kind of just, like, I turned the online dating off. I went on this vacation with my family in Santa Cruz, which was about an hour away. And I was sitting on the beach every day. And, like, this one day, the dolphins, there was, like, this, a whole bunch of dolphins jumping around in the ocean, and they were just frolicking and just jumping around. And I looked out there, and I was, like, sort of communicating with them on some level. I was like, oh, man, that’s so fun, what you’re doing. Like, you’re so full of joy. I want that. I want that kind of playful partnership. And I just gave him a little bit of a, like, a nudge. I was like, go find him for me. You know, I was still, like, believing he was out there, and I was telling these dolphins to go find him for me. And then I so finish up that vacation with my family. I come home without any thought of that. I just sort of felt inspired to turn my online dating back on. These are the kinds of signs, signals, and synchronicities that start to happen when you’re kind of in flow. So because I had surrendered, I was just like, oh, what do I have to lose? I turned it back on and I added some things to my profile that were true about me that I kind of had held back. And I also expanded my reach of how far I would go to meet somebody, which ended up including where my husband lived, Santa Cruz, which is where I was just on vacation. So we met online. He lived in Santa Cruz. And on our second conversation that we had on the phone, we hadn’t even met in person yet, but we had figured out all the ways in which we were in kind of similar communities and just a lot of same interests. He’s walking along the beach in Santa Cruz, and he’s walking along and he stops. He said, oh, I wish you could see this. The dolphins, they’re just jumping around in the ocean right now. They look so much like they’re having so much fun. And I said, wait a minute. What beach are you on? So he was on the beach, like, literally right where I sat, and I did that, and it just kind of, like, hit me. You know, I have this belief system that actually says that those kinds of things will start showing up when you’re on the right path. And so it was a big directional signal to me to like, oh, this is, this is, this could be him. And then I was like, oh, my God, I can’t say this to him, right? Like, I just met the guy, so I’m not going to tell him that story. And then, and then a lot of them started happening. I think at one point I counted 20 of them.

Cate Blouke: Wow.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Another kind of cute one was he showed up on our second date with this item in his hand. And I’ll just say that it was an item that I always had in my little ceremonies where I would, that I would do, where I would, like, try to manifest him a very specific item, and he shows up at the door with it in his hand. And I said, why are you holding that? And he said, I have no idea.

Cate Blouke: Wow.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. Okay. So, like, thing after thing after thing happened like that. And it was, to me, that meant I’m on the lit path here. Like, the signals are saying this is the person hanging there. Because it was, I mean, it was great. But it also, like I said, soon after the honeymoon period, we hit our stuff, you know, and it’s like, we could have just, you know, the relationship could have ended, but I had all these signs that I was in the right place with the right person, and we made it through that period. And, you know, it’s. It’s great. He’s exactly who I was manifesting, and we worked through a lot of that stuff. You know, things. Things still come up. We still work on our things together. But, you know, to this day, we both have very specific practices that we do to work on our intern, to go inside, to work on our patterns, to stay in the heart space. Right. Speaking of heart space rising.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: So I met him in person. We had our first date, and it was just, like, you know, electric from the beginning, but it was the first time I had felt the combination all being right, like, not just chemistry, but also the compatibility and the, you know, just the shared values and all the things that I knew would be necessary for a long term partnership, especially with someone who I wanted to have a spiritual partnership with. Right. Yeah.

Cate Blouke: What does spiritual partnership mean to you?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Oh, yeah. I mean, I can tell you what it means to us now. It probably meant different things slightly as I was growing up and as I was, you know, I thought I was so wise in my twenties.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, you were describing this, like, 20 year old Lisa that I was like, dang, you were way more connected with yourself than I was in my twenties.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, I thought I was really wise. I realize now that I totally wasn’t. But I think now I do have some wisdom. And I think now, the way I would say it is that we’re both aligned, that our purpose in life is to be connected with what might be described by some people as God, the divine Tao, you know, and to live our lives from that place and in service to others. And it’s kind of aligning, like, our consciousness with our true self, with our hearts, you know? Like, living from that place is where we’re. Is where we’re at now. And it’s so beautiful to get to that with somebody. And, like, I. You know, I always like to say we’ve gone through a lot, too. You know, it hasn’t been just a joy ride along the way, but it all was worth it.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. What were some of the things that helped you, like, identify? Like the. Like, this is not it.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: When I was dating people.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. Prior to finding your spiritual partnership that you’d been looking for. Right. Because I think it’s so easy to get. I mean, it can be really hard to hold on to hope. It can really be hard to hold on to that belief that something better is out there. And I do not want to, nor can I settle for this thing.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: First of all, I would say that it, you know, being able to be yourself around somebody and feel safe, now, I have to say there’s definitely things that can be triggers that make you feel unsafe, that come up in relationships. But in general, if somebody is your match, it should be kind of not easy in the sense that you don’t come across patterns, but easy in the sense that you don’t feel like you’re chasing them or that they have to chase you. It’s like you’re meeting each other, you know, like, before. Before I met my husband, the person I had dated before, like, there would be the ghosting and the, like, the panic and the fear. Wouldn’t there be, like, no response? And then I was dating my husband, and it’s like, okay, now I have somebody who’s, like, literally telling me when they’re going to go off grid for a while. So I don’t worry that they’re not responding. You know, it’s like, oh, okay.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, it’s only in the last few years that I’ve dated people that have done that, and it’s just so much nicer. It’s so soothing to be like, oh, you recognize that when you disappear. It doesn’t feel good to me. And you’re letting me know that you’re not just vanishing into the ether, because that’s totally a thing in the modern era.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. And, you know, I can’t say that I know what the dating world is like right now, but I think it’s. There is some sort of ease and naturalness to it. Even though patterns will come up, fear will definitely come up. Right. Because we all fear that. Oh, my gosh. When something feels like it’s right, I think it’s natural human response to fear, the threat of losing that thing. Right. So we go into that, and then that triggers parts of our brain that make us behave in ways that aren’t great, you know?

Cate Blouke: Yeah, I do. I am actually quite familiar with attachment theory and how all of that shows up in relationship.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But if there, you know, with all of that coming up for people, I think there’s something that just keeps drawing you back together in a more natural way, especially when there’s a bigger purpose to the relationship. And the opposite of that is what I would feel with other people. Everything from, like, boredom to, I don’t know, just like, you know, just like, oh, this is just not right.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Trusting that and you can decide to play around with that for a while, like, you know, I remember one guy that I was with where, like, literally, when I met him, I was like, I told my girlfriend we were at a concert. I was like, I should walk the other direction right now. Like, I know this is bad news.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. And then what happened? You’re like.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: And then what happened? It was bad news. And it was.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, it was.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: How long was that? Nine months or whatever. And it was. It was fun and exciting and not. Not great. Like, you know, being with someone like that just makes you question, how did I let someone treat me that way? And, you know, all the things you think you’ve built up in yourself, and then suddenly you’re with a total narcissist.

Cate Blouke: Yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah.

Cate Blouke: So what do you. I mean, so part of my kind of paradigm is that, like, we end up in all of these relationships, you know, because we have something to learn or to heal or that, like, it’s gonna uplevel us so that we’re ready for the next thing. So what do you think you took away from that kind of narcissist experience?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Well, actually, to his credit, he said to me, you know, you need to be with a much nicer guy. And at the time, I didn’t agree with him because I was having fun, and he wasn’t, you know, always very nice to me, and I’m very sensitive, and I’m, you know, at that time, was still very emotionally reactive. I’m. I have that still happen, but less so now. So, yeah, he was kind of right. I mean, I ended up with a. With someone who is one of the kindest people I’ve ever met. Sometimes when you date people who are just so wrong for you, it’s just showing you something you need to learn about yourself or some part of you you need to experience so you can get to the root of what that is. You know, that pattern. Yeah.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. How do you get to the root?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: There’s a lot of modalities out there to do this. So it’s a. It’s a bigger, you know, answer. But working in the body and the unconscious on those things is really important because a lot of those. That’s where it sits. That stuff sits in the unconscious. And it’s things like, you know, people pleasing or avoiding hiding patterns like that that can also hide other patterns, you know?

Cate Blouke: Yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. And then that’s the inner work that takes us a lifetime. And the more we do it, the more we start to uncover what’s blocking our heart from opening to love. It also helps us to trust more and to not be so reactive. I know. Like, so much of my twenties, thirties, forties. I mean, up until just very recently, I just. I was a very emotional, sensitive, and reactive person, really. And I’m only now really sort of feeling like I can identify before that happens more and, like those little saboteurs that want to come up and, like, destroy something to keep you safe.

Cate Blouke: Yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: So I think it’s a. It’s a big. It’s a big quest to go into pattern work and the unconscious and trauma work, you know, and there’s a lot of people doing really good stuff on that, so.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was that process like for you? What were kind of some of the things that just, like, had to get uprooted before you could be ready to meet your person.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. So being fiercely independent doesn’t really go along with being in relationship. Right. And, you know, until recently, I was even still working on that one. But, like, making space for someone in your life is a big deal. I think a lot of people think they’re ready, but knowing that that’s going to take time and work and communication and, like, suddenly, you know, sitting on the, like, on the phone, I’m saying, on the phone, does anybody get on the phone anymore?

Cate Blouke: I mean, I do. I don’t, like, I’m a late millennial. Early millennial. I don’t know, but I still use the phone.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. I mean, suddenly my, like, when you’re in a relationship, you know, and you’re deepening it and you’re growing together, you’re spending a lot of time together, and it takes a lot of consistency. It’s not like when you meet, maybe like, there was an analogy, somebody I know who’s a friendship expert, she was talking about it in terms of friendship. She’s like, you know, when you meet someone that you want to date, it’s not like you just meet them and you had a great date and you’re like, okay, great, I’ll see you in, like, three months. No, that’s what a lot of people do when they’re trying to build friendship. They don’t. Like. The consistency is important. You got to start, like, spending a lot of time together because you need to deepen and build that trust and know who this person is. Right. Yeah. So I would say that the biggest thing that shifted for me, or the biggest thing I did to shift that pattern was just making room in my life, even on a symbolic level. I literally made space in my closet. I made space on the side of the bed that this is where this person’s going to be sleeping. You know, like, just putting things around that symbolically represented somebody coming into my life was a big deal for me, you know?

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah. How long? Like, when you started that practice, like, when did you make the space?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: You’re like, how long did this take?

Cate Blouke: Well, kind of. I mean, well, like, in the sense of, I think it can be so easy for those of us who are in the grind to, like, lose the perspective that if we’re trying to not settle right, if we’re really deciding to live by the principle of I want genuine, nourishing spiritual partnership. And I do believe that that is out there for me. But, like, fucking a, I’ve been making these lists and checking them twice for like a decade or whatever. You know, I find it so helpful to have that sense of perspective and especially because I am pretty woo. And in the manifestation space and whatever, it can be easy to hope for instant results of, oh, I’m going to do this ceremony and I’m going to clear out the side of my dresser, and then three months later, I’m going to have a partner.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, well, what I can say to you is those things do work. I’ll give you another, another piece of the 20 synchronicities that showed up within two weeks of meeting this person. He was on his own little kind of self guided retreat or something, and he went to a place randomly where I had done ceremony before for my partner. And I said, wait, where are you? Wait, where did you go? So those things were happening, and I did a lot of that. And I definitely think it took a long time to manifest him, but I was sending mixed messages to the universe. I was like, I’m going to be a single mom. I’m just going to do this alone. And I don’t need a man. Like, I had that really implanted in me from watching my mom need a man. And those are unconscious patterns that I had beliefs about the world, that I had to start actually being courageous and take risks and date and then keep dating and then keep dating again. And, like, it’s not like I could expect him to just show up to my doorstep, right? And so now for the people who are taking courageous action, inspired action, and they’re making the lists and they’re doing the ceremonies, or the intention at least, right, feeling into how you want to feel with that person. I think I would say the next piece of that, and it was really key for me, is then surrendering and don’t send a mixed message. Like, don’t settle, don’t settle. Don’t fucking settle.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, don’t fucking settle.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Because what that says is, I’ll take less. I’m going to ask for this. It’s like going into a restaurant and ordering a hamburger, but you’re like, and I’m going to also come over here and eat this person’s salad on their plate or something.

Cate Blouke: I ordered a hamburger and you, like, brought me some chicken nuggets, and I like chicken nuggets. I guess I’ll eat those. But that’s not really what I came here for.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Out there making your burger, and they look out and they see you eating whatever, and they’re like, oh, that person doesn’t need this now. They’re, they’re going to be full.

Cate Blouke: So it’s just, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: And that means sometimes you will kind of be alone. But if. If what you described is like being in a nourishing, you know, like, just getting really clear on what it is you want to feel and the kind of relationship you want to be in, then be around that pool of people and vibes. For example, I knew that my husband and I would be both spiritually focused, like meditation. We’re both qigong teachers, so be out there in those fields of people and don’t be hanging out in the bars unless you want to meet someone who’s, you know, drinking a lot of alcohol.

Cate Blouke: Hanging out in the bars.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, yeah, that’s fine, too. And I hung out in a lot of bars. I have nothing against bars, but that’s not where my, my partner was hanging out. Yeah, he was at ashrams and stuff back in the nineties, you know.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah. I was making out with a lot of people in bars in the early aughts, but that’s not where I hang out anymore. Yeah, I love that, like, idea of, well, I don’t love it, but I resonate with that idea of sending the universe mixed messages. Right. And the ways in which those can show up unconsciously of like, oh, I want partnership, but I don’t have any space for a partner, right.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Or I want partnership, but then let’s just say you have an unconscious pattern of being kind of a victim, and you’re just like, I want partnership, but I’m so alone and I’m so. Life is so hard, and you don’t have joy in your heart, right? You can’t. It’s like, find the joy that opens your heart. And then when you go out in the world, when you go out and you’re in a good mood and you’re kind of open. You’re like, a little bit more open. People smile at you, and suddenly they start talking to you, and that takes courage.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah, my heart. Just like when you were, when you said, like, when you don’t have joy in your heart, my little heart hurt. I was like, oh, I know what that space is. That’s when the lonely swiping happens. More often than not, we get on these dating apps. I’d say we, as in me and my fellow humans who are on the hap mobile so often, what we’re bringing to that is that sad, lonely.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, exactly.

Cate Blouke: Of course, we’re not attracting what we want.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Right, exactly. So one of the other sort of backdoor ways in is to get out of that and go do something that is playful or brings you joy, like me talking to the dolphins, you know, or something, being at the beach or whatever. And then suddenly the joy opens your heart naturally and you’re in a different space. And then when you are on the app swiping, you’re in a different place. And you know this because. Yeah, woo woo. You’re drawing in a different thing at that point, right?

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah, totally. And, you know, for anyone who’s listening, who’s not super woo, like, this stuff still applies.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah.

Cate Blouke: Whether we grounded in that, like, the woo woo language of, like, energy and vibration or whatever, the mood you bring to the table is the mood you’re gonna attract.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, exactly. So it’s like, you know, just to be on a more scientific level or even just more practical level, if you walk into a room of people and you’re, like, in a really bad mood, they’re not going to want to, like, talk to you. They’re going to feel you’re closed off, you know, suddenly, ooh, like, let’s avoid that. If you’re feeling like you need to, like, close your heart or protect yourself, that’s going to be felt everywhere you go. We all know this. Whether we’re woo or not, we know this, right. There are certain people, you’re just like, oh, I don’t want to talk to that person. They’re not available to me right now. And so to become available, how do you open your heart? And I had my own process of talking to the dolphins and coming home and being in this surrendered place where I was like, all right, you know what? I’m good. I’m just gonna be alone for the rest of my life. And that was the final thing. But all the other things were important, too, that I had done to lead up to that being so clear that I wanted this kind of partnership. You know, I had two different people proposed to me in my life, and I did not go into that because that would have been a very sidetracked trail.

Cate Blouke: Yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah.

Cate Blouke: How would you describe kind of the difference between giving up and surrender?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: That’s such a great question. I think that giving up has a feeling of hopelessness to it, and I probably had reached that a couple times because I. I definitely tended towards a depressive side in my twenties and thirties, but this felt different. So that’s why I say to people, it was like giving up, but it was surrender, and it has a sense of trust in it that I’m going to be okay. And so I’m not feeling in that moment a sense of panic or loneliness. It’s more like acceptance. Yeah. Acceptance of what is. And what is in this moment is that I don’t feel like dating and I haven’t met the guy yet, even though I can totally feel him and I know he’s out there. And that’s. I’m just going to accept that right now. And then somehow in that acceptance, he came right into my life at that, like a week later.

Cate Blouke: Wow.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah.

Cate Blouke: God, I wish you could just, like, bottle that up and sell it. Right? That energy of, like, you know, I’m going to hand it over and I’m going to be okay. Because, like, I absolutely, you know, have had that experience in different arenas in my life. Right. I’m just being like, okay. Like, I’ve done. I’ve done what I can. I’m all right. And then, like, the thing, you know.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: I should probably mention, because this could be a synchronicity for your show that somebody told me today. It’s the second time I’ve heard about this book, and I haven’t read it yet, but I think it’s called the Surrender experiment by Michael Singer, who wrote the Untethered Soul, which is another really great book. So apparently it’s about this, about a journey of just surrendering over and over and following the synchronicity. So there’s a book I haven’t even.

Cate Blouke: There we go. Okay, well, I am always open to book recommendations, so I will put it in my queue. Yeah. So, like, what have been your big learnings? So you, like, met your person and then you were like, oh, my gosh, here’s all of these signs that this is my person. What has that journey then been like?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, well, it definitely gave me, I think, you know, I tend to be, just because of my past distress and trauma and, you know, things. We all have trauma. I just believe at this point, we’ve all. We all have something back there in our early childhood and beyond that has caused us to not trust, not trust ourself, not trust other people, not trust our bodies, you know? And I definitely had big trust issues, so I can tell you that that was something I needed to learn and work on. And it definitely came up right away with Christopher, my husband. So it was so important to have the synchronicity and the signs. So I could just keep saying to myself, if I just keep doing the work, because, you know, and that’s the other thing, too, is when you’re in a partnership where two people are, like, part of their journey here is personal development. As long as, you know, both people are doing that inner work, then there’s always that, like, self reflection, self awareness, and growth. That was what saved us every single time, because it wasn’t just me on a spiritual journey doing my work. He was doing his work, too. And so we were meeting each other in that place of like, oh, gosh, yeah, I did that, and I did that. And, you know, continuing to grow, and it’s messy a lot. Relationships are not always easy. You know, they’re very hard. It’s much easier to be spiritually enlightened sitting at a retreat center.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah. And what just lit up for me in listening to you. Right. Is that partnership, as I understand it, or hope for it. Right. Is that you’re both on that spiritual growth path. I’ve definitely been on that path myself for a long time and, like, dated a lot of people who, like, wanted to be on that path, but weren’t really or didn’t want to be on the path at all. And, like, you can’t be the only one doing the work.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, it’s really tough. I mean, a lot of relationships are that way. And I meet a lot of people on my journey who are in a marriage or a partnership where the other person’s not quite into whatever they are. And it’s tough, you know? And I feel like part of our journey also has been for he and I to realize that we are both kind of very similar, but also very different. My spiritual journey is very different than his, even though there’s some of that that we share and just being very grateful that we share some of it is the place I’m at now. But there’s been times, of course, where I’m like, yeah, I’m not going to do that. That’s not my path. That’s your path. You know, my fierce, independent part. Right.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. And I was just thinking about how, like, you know, it can be easy to fall into the trap of thinking that, I mean, we’re looking for somebody who’s like, this much the same. Right. And I know in my experience in friends and clients that I’ve coached around dating, it’s not about having all of the same shared activities. It’s the sort of, like, are your core values in alignment? Are what you want out of life in alignment? It doesn’t matter that he’s into rock climbing and I’m into long distance running if we both care about having an active lifestyle.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Right.

Cate Blouke: You know?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, exactly. That’s. You just nailed it right there. It doesn’t have to look exactly the same, although you’re, you know, you want to be with someone that you actually enjoy spending time with. Right. That’s a whole nother thing. I know that sounds funny to say, but there’s a lot of people out there who are settling, and they don’t really like hanging out with their partner that much. They’re always trying to get away from them. Right. We like being together, and we don’t have to be together all the time. We also very much need alone time and solitude. We’re both introverts, and we also process things by being alone. So that’s very healthy for us both as well. But we enjoy being together. And that’s another thing that, to just look for after the honeymoon phase is over and all of that. And the other thing I would say, too, is there’s some support, prizes along the way that, you know, when you’re making your list, just be open around. Like, some things might show up that you’re like, hmm. I never thought I would be with someone who watches sports on tv like, that just didn’t go along with my paradigm of a spiritual woodsman, you know? And my, that the spiritual woodsman is, is a phrase that I used to say about him before I met him because people, other people, intuitives would pick up on him and they’re like, oh, he lives in the woods, which he did in the northwoods of Wisconsin. And anyway, and so I meet him, and suddenly he’s like, watching football and basketball on tv, and I’m like, oh, my God, how am I going to deal with this? Right?

Cate Blouke: How do you deal with it, Lisa?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: That’s a good question. So at first, right, when I, when we were first dating, I would, like, watch it with him, and I’m like, hmm, yeah. Now we’re at the point where, like, when. And he doesn’t actually watch it that much, but for him, it’s like a childhood thing. Right. He did that with his dad, and there’s, like, this whole thing about sports for him now I just let him do it, and I don’t. I’m not in the same room because I’m just like, I don’t want to watch football.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: That’s your thing.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah. And, like, how kind of empowering and supportive of both of you, right. To be in a partnership where it’s like, he doesn’t need you to watch football with him to be okay. And, like, you don’t have to do the thing you don’t want to do. All right. And the relationship can be okay.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. And then we still want to be with each other, too, because, you know, we don’t have so many separate activities that our lives are just completely separate. Right, right. We have enough shared experiences, and I think that’s really important in a healthy relationship is to have separate and shared experiences that bring you joy, you know?

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the sort of tagline of the podcast, right. This is all about claiming your joy, but really, if your relationship isn’t bringing you joy, on the scale of things, nobody’s perfect. We’re all going to have our moments. The people we love are going to drive us bananas. But to me, the reason to be in partnership is to, like, inspire joy in each other, right?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Mm hmm.

Cate Blouke: I mean, among other things. But, like.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Absolutely. And some people might not even know what. What joy feels like anymore in their life, in their partnership, in their own heart. Yeah. What is joy like?

Cate Blouke: Yeah. What does. What does joy feel like for you, Lisa?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Well, I think it’s, like, very tied to the heart for me, so it can be. I can be feeling joy sitting, doing nothing, if I’m really connected to my heart and my true self, and just the. And then, like, kind of an appreciation for nature, for the person I’m living with, for, you know, the place I live. Like, if I start getting into the field of gratitude and appreciation, I can immediately go into joy. It’s like. It’s like the heart. Heart math stuff and the, you know, kind of the coherence of the heart. It’s pretty easy to go there if you just get into gratitude, you know?

Cate Blouke: Yeah, absolutely. Gratitude is a really excellent vehicle for, like, finding the opportunities for joy in my life anyway.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. So I know. I feel like this is a nice little segue because I know, the heart is very important to you, as you just said, and your coaching practice is called heart space rising. What’s the sort of story behind that name?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Well, yeah, it came up with it, like, a year ago when I left some nonprofit work that I’ve been doing for many years and just decided to be an entrepreneur and start a coaching business. I just thought about, like, what’s my end goal with everything I do in the world? And it’s really to cultivate more love, connection, trust, joy. Right. So and so that name just came to me because I was like, you know, as you’ve already heard me talking about today, it’s, like, all about the heart space for me. And the rising part. It just sort of feels like that has, like, movement. Like, creating a movement of something in the world that it’s like, let’s get back to the heart. Let’s get back to creating community. You know, let’s get back to finding ways to intentionally design gatherings to create connection and safety for people so they will come back out of the house after the pandemic. And, like, let’s. Let’s see how we can all go deeper, connect deeper to each other. Not just the surface level, scary, awkward conversations that happen, but, like. And not everybody wants a deep conversation, but I do. Like, that’s my peeps, right?

Cate Blouke: Same. Right. That’s the. You know, if you’re not into the big, like, let’s go deep, then great, you can go elsewhere, right? Like, the world is a big place. There’s lots of people. We can all find our peeps. There are going to be plenty of people that do want to talk about the weather, right?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: And talking about the weather is a great way in. I just. For me, the people that I’m going to spend a lot of time with are, like, my close circle of people. If we’re not going deep, I just feel like we’re circling. It’s like this very unsatisfying feeling. Like, all right, what really matters to you? What are you grappling with? What are you. What brings you joy? You know? Like, you’re, like, we’re talking about here. Like, I want to know people on a deeper level, and I want to grow together. Like, let’s all talk about, like, what we’re striving for or what our mission is. What. What’s our calling? How are we going to make this. This fucked up place better that we all live in? Like, what are we doing to change the world, you know? That’s what I want to talk about.

Cate Blouke: Yeah. Same like, preach. I’m into it. Well, awesome. Lisa, this has been lovely. What’s your sort of invitation or exercise that you’d like to offer our listeners today?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah, so I was thinking it would be fun to just invite people to take five or ten minutes to just journal about what we were talking about in terms of what an authentic and fulfilling, like, deeply fulfilling relationship looks like to you and what it feels like to you. Right. Like, just to write about that and that in itself, speaking from kind of a woo perspective, already creates energy into the universe. Right. So then start to pay attention to the signs, the signals, the little inkling to go in that direction or the thing that shows up, you know, especially right after you’ve kind of really written that out and been really clear. And then just another invite to just. If something comes up around that that feels like an obstacle or a block, then to just find a way to do the inner work with someone, maybe a practitioner, to get some support, to get to that root level of what’s keeping you isolated or disconnected or lonely, playing it safe. Right. To just make a commitment to do what’s needed. And don’t settle. Don’t settle for being alone, but also don’t settle for a bad relationship.

Cate Blouke: Yeah, fuck bad relationships. One of the ways in which I’ve reframed things for myself is that I’m really good at not staying in bad relationships. Like, that is a skill set of mine. Yeah. And just that, like. And that’s, you know, and I want that for all of us to be true of both, like, romantic relationships, but also friendships.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah.

Cate Blouke: Right. Like, we deserve to be treated well in all of our relationships and. And to be in connection, that brings us joy.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Yeah. Yeah. And jumping out of a bad relationship is, I mean, some people might say stay in there and learn and try, but if you know that it’s. It’s not good for you and it. And it doesn’t make you feel like your true self, then you’re really just kind of wasting your time. And that has lessons to it as well. That has growth, but you could also choose not to. It sounds like you’re doing that, Cate, and I would imagine that’s kind of lonely sometimes, but that means that you’re. You’re staying clear with what it is you want, you know?

Cate Blouke: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Solisa, what brings you joy?

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Let’s see. Well, in this moment, what brings me joy is the community gardeners that we’ve created on our property that come here to help help us with this little micro farm. That we have. We did it to build community, but it also, it’s like more hands make many work, and so planning those kind of gatherings here is, it brings me a lot of joy, lot of gratitude for what we’ve created here in just a couple years. And then, of course, my partner and all the new journey that we’re on with some new practices in working with chi and building up certain energies in the body, that’s been really profound for me, too. So in the moment, that’s kind of what’s coming to me. Yeah.

Cate Blouke: I love that. Thank you so much for sharing all of this with us today. It’s been a delight.

Lisa Lewis-Cogswell: Thank you, Cate. Always fun to talk to you. Thank you.