Using Movement to Shift Perspective with Dr. Sarah Roth

Fun fact: our connective tissue has more neurons and neuroreceptors than any other organ in the body! Which means any physical movement we make can have a substantial impact on our mental outlook – a handy concept we can leverage when trying to implement changes in our lives. In other words: move your butt to change your mind!

In this conversation with Dr. Sarah Roth, an ER physician and fulfillment coach, we chat about the neuroscience of change and the way that physically moving our bodies can facilitate shifts in both mood and mindset. Sarah and I also talk about the importance of self-awareness and choice, the need for self-compassion and self-care, and the ways that intentionality can lead to more joyful living.

Sarah’s Website: Head to Heart Fulfillment

Read the transcript below. (Note, I did a *little* bit of additional editing, so the timestamps are off by a few seconds here and there).

Resources, References, and Links:

Metaphor and stuckness. My post where I discuss feeling into the stuckness: “Action Fuels Motivation (Seriously)”

Proprioception. An article offering more details about proprioception: “Proprioception: Making Sense of Body Position”

Power posing. Amy Cuddy’s famous TED talk about the impact of power posing (*note, her findings have not been replicated, so there is much debate about this. On a personal level, I’ve found it really impactful): “Your body language may shape who you are | Amy Cuddy | TED”

Warrior poses. Article about the pose and examples: https://www.yogabasics.com/connect/warrior-poses/

Couches. Highly recommend the Kova Collection from Albany Park.

Weighted blankets. “Weighted Blanket Benefits”

Fraggle Rock. As of publication, you can watch the original Fraggle Rock (1983) on Apple TV. 

Decision fatigue. It’s real! And definitely something to pay attention to. “Decision Fatigue: What It Is and How to Avoid It”

Choosing perspective. My post about looking back at things with generosity: “Viewing Our Past with Generosity”

Transcript

Cate Blouke (00:00)
Hi friends! I have with me today Dr. Sarah Roth. She is an ER physician, a yoga teacher, a prior therapist, and a fulfillment coach, and a truly lovely human who I enjoy thoroughly and can’t wait to talk to today. Hi, Sarah!

Sarah Roth (00:22)
I am happy to be here. I’m excited.

Cate Blouke (00:25)
Sarah and I are going to talk a little bit about the neuroscience of change today and specifically about the ways in which changing our body, moving our body around, can really help to shift our perspective and kind actualize, get some good change stuff happening in our lives.

Sarah Roth (00:46)
Yep, we’re gonna figure out how to move our body and then how to make the changes we want to have happen actually happen.

Very empowering

Cate Blouke (00:57)
Yeah, so why does why does moving our body facilitate change?

Sarah Roth (01:04)
So I ran across this like super interesting fact recently that our connective tissue actually has more neurons and neuro receptors in it than really any other organ in the body. And if you think about that, then any time you move any sort of movement that actually changes your connective tissue and the way it’s aligned on your body, you’re going to have some sort of input head to your brain. So it makes

sense that anytime we shift ourselves either purposefully or not on purpose, that there could be a way to bring more information to our brain and then therefore shift a perspective or shift a way we think about something or shift a way we feel about something. I think that’s fascinating.

Cate Blouke (01:54)
Yeah, what’s floated to the surface for me, just listening to you talk about that, is like I have ADHD and am a persistent fidget -er. And so I’m wondering, how does that play, as I’m talking about this now, I’m sort of wiggling my body, how does that play into what you just said?

Sarah Roth (02:15)
Well, I think that’s like, it’s interesting, right? Like, there’s probably something that you feel that makes you decide to move your body, like, even that some like, kind of unconscious level, there’s like some sort of energy there, there’s something that needs to move and move and move. And if you had place where you wanted to be more intentional about that, then you might like,

stand up and move, or you might get like a little fidget spinner to like focus that into some space. And in that way, kind of channel that energy in a direction that you wanted it to go.

Cate Blouke (02:55)
So I guess I’m having a like chicken and an egg moment, right? Of like, what’s the brain, what’s the body, what’s the body, what’s the brain? You know, how does that work?

Sarah Roth (03:00)
Mm -hmm.

Which is fun because the answer is yes to both of those things. So your body and being aware of your body shifts your brain, but your brain is also aware that it could shift the body and so you’re going back and forth at any given moment.

Sarah Roth (03:26)
so yes, and it’s both of those things. The body is talking to the brain and the brain is talking to the body. And it’s a matter of whether or not we’re aware of it.

There are so many different ways to become aware. You can start to be noticing the places in your body that perhaps are calling to you. The idea comes to mind, I had a shoulder injury for a while that I was rehabbing. It was my left shoulder and it was really achy. But it was also very connected to where my heart was.

And so I started rehabbing it, but I also got the chance to start coaching and teaching yoga in a more fulfilling way for me. And it all of a sudden kind of naturally improved and got better. And so one could kind of look at that and be like, oh, is there a connection? Is there a connection to that was my body telling me that I wanted to be doing something more with yoga or I wanted to be doing something more with my coaching or I wanted to be doing something in a different way.

or was it simply an injury, doesn’t matter because either way it gave information and led to movement and choice and direction.

Cate Blouke (04:49)
Yeah, so you are in a really interesting and unique position to be looking at and thinking about all of these things as a, you know, trained physician who treats and heals the bodies of the peoples. And also a trained and practicing fulfillment coach who trains and heals the spirit, minds and souls of the peoples. So what?

Sarah Roth (05:13)
Hopefully. At some level I’m doing both of those things.

Cate Blouke (05:20)
What a… Yeah, I Yeah, you are. It’s happening. So yeah, I’m curious kind of how this awareness, right, as a yoga teacher and someone who is really in the fulfillment space, like, does this inform how you show up as a physician?

Sarah Roth (05:48)
Absolutely. I work in an emergency room

Sarah Roth (05:56)
And so I’m often dealing with people who have specific physical concerns of some kind. Maybe they’re sick with pneumonia. Maybe they’ve cut themselves and actually need me to sew them up. They might have a broken ankle, those sorts of things. But there are also any number of people who are coming in with concerns for chest pain or they’re feeling short of breath.

or they’re having some other sort of manifestation of like a physical symptom. But in our conversation, it turns out they’re maybe having increased family stressors. I had a patient recently who was a young person. They were 33 years old, no real cardiac cause for pain in their chest, but were really anxious that maybe their heart was having a problem. Turns out,

All of his workup was negative, but his wife was in the hospital and his job was really stressful. And he had recently been in a car accident. Like he had so many other things that were manifesting themselves as maybe a physical symptom. And so we see a lot of that in, in the emergency room. We’re really in the field of like, how does the mind kind of affect the body in that way?

And so what I’m interested in is the fact that it can, we could choose for it to go the opposite direction. So we could say, Oh, wow, I’m having this experience or I’m having these thoughts about change that I want to have in my life or about a certain pattern I’ve noticed in my life. And could I utilize my body to actually try and shift the way I think about something.

Cate Blouke (07:51)
So what might that look like? What might be an example of that? Like, I don’t know. I’m trying.

Sarah Roth (07:52)
Hahaha!

So I was like, if you think about playing, we play sometimes within the world of coaching, we play sometimes with the idea of metaphor. So we might think about, oh, I’m feeling a certain way and it feels like an apple is falling out of a tree and it’s splatting all over the ground. Or like we play with metaphor a lot within like.

Cate Blouke (08:22)
Yeah.

Sarah Roth (08:24)
creative verbal processing, imagination.

Cate Blouke (08:29)
Yeah, that turns up a ton in my coaching as well. Right.

Sarah Roth (08:33)
And it’s fun and it’s a way of accessing things that you wouldn’t ordinarily access. But we could do the same if we started to think, oh, when I’m doing this particular behavior or I am feeling a certain way about something and I’m feeling stuck there, you could start to maybe stand up and just feel what it feels like in your physical body to feel.

And then you could say, I want to choose something different and could I use maybe a doorway in my house and say, I’m going to walk through this doorway and choose something different. I want to feel this way about that scenario.

Cate Blouke (09:21)
Yeah, I’m thinking about just starting this podcast even. I wrote about this a little bit on the blog a while ago, but it was really helpful for me to get a felt sense, well, a metaphor of what the stuckness really felt like for me. And in that case,

Sarah Roth (09:44)
Mm -hmm.

Cate Blouke (09:48)
it was feeling like I was standing on the edge of a high dive and getting ready to jump. And I was super freaked out about it, right? Which is very different from feeling like my feet are stuck in concrete and I can’t move, right? Two totally different kinds of stuckness. And so I’m imagining myself like going backwards, thinking about that, like how interesting it might have been to like, I don’t know, get up and then like actually jump, right?

Sarah Roth (09:53)
Mm -hmm.

Cate Blouke (10:17)
to take a literal jump. I’m kind of delighted by that idea. Is this something you’ve done for yourself? This kind of thing?

Sarah Roth (10:17)
Yes.

Yeah, so I recently went through a breakup of like a long -term relationship and in the process of my own thoughts around what is it that I want to be about? What is it that makes me fulfilled? What is my purpose about? What is all of the things that I really want to be?

I was in a place where I could not, I couldn’t really access that. Like I knew what it felt like to be not happy. I felt like I knew what it felt like to be not in alignment and had that sense in my body of what it felt like. And I tried to visualize, tried to use metaphor, tried to use some of these other tools, but still felt very much like I kind of like just felt more of the things that I didn’t want to feel.

but I could almost dream or wish or kind of have this idea of what I think it would look like and then actually walked through a door to the other side and felt those feelings of being happy, of being settled, of being content. Recognizing that there was still a lot of work to get from A to B, but that if I had a taste of B, then you knew where you were heading.

and just actually moving my body through a doorway to the other side reminded my physical body that there was a way to get from one place to the other.

Cate Blouke (11:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, I’m thinking about, and I’ve always, I’ve received this from a more kind of woo woo perspective or space, but like I’ve definitely had kind of spiritual teachers and whatnot encourage me to do meditations where I really focus on like feeling the feelings in my body that I like want to be feeling, right? So if I want to, attract a partner? Like, what does it feel like to already have that partner? And who am who do I get to be? And that has always felt very in the like woo woo space and the like meditating on my chakras, which like I’m very woo woo. So it’s fine. But it’s interesting to be thinking about it from a more like neuroscience perspective. Right.

Sarah Roth (13:03)
our physical body is always bringing in information. So it’s bringing in information on these kind of three different platforms. So we have these like external receptors that are really our five senses and they’re just like bringing in all the stuff, what we see, what we hear, what we smell, all the things like what we’re touching, all that sort of thing. And then there’s kind of our internal.

receptors, which are really kind of more on autopilot. Like we’re not necessarily having to tell our heart to beat. We’re not having to tell the lungs, oh yeah, you should probably bring a little more oxygen in and get rid of that carbon dioxide or whatever, you know, like we have all this like, that’s all the kind of internally regulated at some point. But then we have these proprioceptors, which are like, kind of hovering in between both of those different sorts of places. So they’re,

having a sense of where our physical body is in space, while also having this sort of internal structure for processing how to get us to not topple over is what we think of a lot of in the proprioception world. But if we’re experiencing the world in a certain way, and we have all of these different neurons telling our brains information,

that it makes sense at some level that we could say, I want to feel my emotions be in a different place, or I want to feel.

more confident or I want to feel this different pattern move in a different direction that we could use our proprioceptive receptors to shift our physical body where we then see, hear, smell something different and kind of have this idea of like, okay, well then I could be different. I could actually shift and change in that direction. But it has been traditionally more in the woo woo world where we

have anecdotes about it, right? Like we’re like, oh yeah, that person like started doing a power pose and they got that job and like whatever. So we have anecdotes about it, but we’re now really looking at, oh, there’s actual neurons firing and we could, if they’re stuck in one pathway, we could actually introduce a new pathway and maybe it might take a little bit longer to get there because.

that new pathway isn’t as well developed, but that could become the new pattern, that could become the new feeling, that could become the new way of being if we actually shift the connective tissue to activate those neurons and go in that direction.

Cate Blouke (15:57)
Right, so I’m imagining kind of like picking a physical gesture, right? So I mean, the power pose, right? But like picking a physical gesture to represent the sort of feeling we want to cultivate or the new idea that we want to cultivate. And then making that part of a like daily routine or a ritual is that.

Sarah Roth (16:03)
Right.

just, or even it could be, it could be that that’s part of what you do, or it could be the recognition that you could step from one place to the next, and simply knowing that there’s the ability to walk to something different is what is needed at that moment. Or,

Some people play with, again, the idea of metaphor and they think, okay, this is what it feels like to feel stuck in cement, like to use your metaphor before, or this is what it might feel like to jump off of a high dive. But there might be this sense of like, well, this is what it might feel like to be in a river that’s flowing with powerful energy around me. Could I lay down and actually just see if I feel that river and could I then tap into that?

Cate Blouke (16:54)
Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Yeah. I mean, even just like sitting here talking about it when you said that, I mean, even just like imagine, I kind of sat back in my chair a little bit. I like imagined a river and I was like, ooh, I like being in a power river. Like that sounds great. Like.

Sarah Roth (17:33)
And so you shifted and moved because the body wants to it wants to then I did it too. I leaned back. I started thinking like, Oh, yeah, I could, I could get on the floor right now. And really feel that water over the top of me. And then maybe the next time that I was in a situation that I needed to tap into that energy for whatever reason, whether I needed it for safety, I needed it for creativity, I needed it to like,

Cate Blouke (17:36)
Yeah.

Sarah Roth (18:01)
spur me onto that next thing, could I just actually lay down on a floor and tap back into that? And because sometimes you’re right, like we can’t get there, we can’t get there in our brains, we can’t get there in our like, oh, yeah, I’m gonna like, imagine what it looks like to whatever. Like, sometimes we just can’t imagine our way to that place. And we can’t make ourselves feel a certain way. And we can’t like, garner up that

confidence in some way. But we could if we shifted our body and like stood in a certain way or laid down on the floor or which is why I mean, it’s why people did yoga. They’re like, oh, I can go into a warrior pose and have the sense of being grounded and strong and confident and forward facing. I could go into a balanced posture and practice.

not having the world like took me over. I could like that yoga was very much a way of like shifting your body in order to like grab onto some of those ideas of how to be in the world.

Cate Blouke (19:11)
I’m thinking about… So I have a tendency to get stuck on my couch. Right? I mean, anyone who’s been to my house is aware I have the best couches, because I’m very particular about having very deep, very squishy couches, because couches are for getting stuck into. But yeah, sometimes it can also be a really demotivated…

Sarah Roth (19:16)
I love couches.

Cate Blouke (19:37)
of shut down place for me. And oftentimes, when I’m in that place, like, I think about one of my favorite sort of sayings, which is that I can’t think myself into right action, I have to act myself into right thinking. And so I need to just fucking like get up off the couch and like move to remember that I am capable of movement that like even if I don’t want you like really it’s often I’m looking at like a pile of dishes in the sink and I’m like, I don’t want to

deal with that. And then I scroll on Instagram for 30 more minutes and then don’t feel great. And so finally get off the couch and just that that gesture of like getting up and moving my body often can really shift and remind me that like I do want to be in motion and I do want the momentum and I don’t want to wake up in the morning and have a pile of dishes in the sink still.

Sarah Roth (20:31)
And there’s equal, there is equal times for being, for there being a call to the couch and a call to that cozy, nurturing space of feeling enclosed and safe and, and whatever is needed in that space. But it’s a recognition for that being perhaps for that moment, that’s what’s needed. And then,

recognizing from that there can be a shift. There can be motion toward something else. And so it’s a matter of using your awareness. Again, kind of going back to that chicken versus egg sort of idea is that are there moments when our body needs the quiet and the calm and the soothing of being snuggled into a couch or like, I mean, weighted blankets or all the thing.

You know, like it’s soothing. There’s something soothing and weighted and addressing the physical body to actually suit the spirit and the soul and the emotions.

Cate Blouke (21:29)
Mm -hmm.

Sarah Roth (21:38)
So then if we are using all of those ways of physical manifestation, so we’re calming the outside physical body in order to calm the inside person, we can decide to say I want to shift myself out of this feeling and instead of just kind of like having something brought to me, I can actually say I’m going to

move my body and put it on the floor and say, now I’m engaging this raging river and I’m going to move forward. And from there, I’m going to do whatever it is I’m going to do. I’m going to harness these things in order to help me shift and move and experience the way I want to experience the world. More confidence, more energy, more creativity, and go in that direction.

Cate Blouke (22:33)
Yeah, so Sarah and I are both trained in the co -active coaching model, among other things, as similarly voracious learners of things. But the co -active model is really big on getting us into our body and getting people to kind of stand up and move around and play with a lot of this. And I’m curious, Sarah,

How do you present that to or folks who are a little more skeptical of the like, why do I have to get up? What are you talking about?

Sarah Roth (23:10)
it’s right? Because it can often be like, are you, why are we doing this? Why am I standing here and shifting and whatever? But what’s funny is that there’s a whole world of insight that is found in moving or shifting into the body. And so I will, I will simply tell clients like I get it.

It’s a little strange. It’s a little, you know, I’m the yoga teacher. I’m going to make you do things in your body and feel them. And I had one client who felt very resistant to that. He was a gentleman who had been a primary care physician for 30, 40 years. He was like, what do you mean? Where do I feel things in my body? What are you talking about? And then started to, like, he was like, oh, that’s kind of weird.

Cate Blouke (23:43)
you

Sarah Roth (24:05)
of interesting, I noticed that when I am anxious, I do things like I do projects around the house, I do whatever I’m going to do, because I’m going to just get out of my anxious head, and I’m going to do them. I’m like, okay, cool. So you’re noticing that? Where do you feel it? Where do you sense it? What do you want to do with that? So then he fell off of a ladder, showed up one day in a session, wrist in a splint.

Cate Blouke (24:14)
I can relate to that.

Sarah Roth (24:33)
And I was like, what’s going on here? And he was like, so I got real anxious and I decided to go clean the gutters of my house rather than like recognize that maybe that’s not a great idea. And I fell off the ladder. I’m like, okay. But from that moment on, we had a physical manifestation of…

What does anxiety look like? And is there a way to do something different? Cause he had to rehab that wrist and it never was the same. And each time he would like reach into a pocket or he would like try to put his shirt sleeve on and couldn’t like button it just right. He would have this reminder because the body was reminding him like there’s a, there’s a way you could do something different. So once it’s introduced and it then became very playful and fun to like talk about like.

Cate Blouke (25:15)
Mm -hmm.

Sarah Roth (25:25)
your body has things it wants to tell you, if you listen. And what can we do with that? Can we stand up and utilize that in a different way? Then can we like, say, I’m going to shift and not use this hand, I’m going to use this one instead, or I’m going to whatever. There unlocks new insight, new kinds of things. So it’s about, I think being playful and recognizing that.

Cate Blouke (25:49)
Yeah.

Sarah Roth (25:52)
is going to feel a little awkward, it’s going to feel a little weird, but you are going to get some information. And then once you get that nugget, that first piece of insight, that first piece of information, then it becomes much easier to want to do.

Cate Blouke (26:04)
Yeah, I’m thinking back to the sort of anecdote you provided about your experience of like walking through the door. Did, then, you know, was every time you walked through that door, sort of, did that stay representative or were there more sort of symbolic walking through doors? How did that play out for you?

Sarah Roth (26:13)
Mm -hmm.

Um, so that in some ways that was symbolic and it was done in a space that was really meaningful for me. So a lot of times it did represent that and was representative of that. There have been other moments where I’ve needed to try and harness that in a different way or where

Cate Blouke (26:35)
Hmm.

Sarah Roth (26:51)
there has been the call to just be in the space of in that particular scenario where I was leaving something behind and moving into something. There were moments where I needed to actually give in to the grief side of it and actually not move. So then there was the choice to actually sit. I didn’t like that one quite as much, but.

Cate Blouke (27:03)
Yeah, yeah, I was just, I was just thinking, I was like, okay, so like, I mean, and this is, I feel very called out, not really, but like that story of the client with the anxiety, I am a doer, right? Like I will, I will do and I will do and I will do and then.

Sarah Roth (27:21)
I’m sorry.

Cate Blouke (27:33)
you know, thankfully I have not, I’m gonna knock on some wood, like haven’t broken a wrist yet, but there will be some sort of universal signal that like I need to sit down and and do something different. So I’m curious like how you support people in like finding that, like when is the time to get up and move and when is the time to sort of stay in the stillness and be with whatever the thing is.

Sarah Roth (28:00)
Right, and I think that that becomes, I think, sort of a dance, and maybe this comes from that sense of awareness of why are we doing, what is the reason for the doing? Is the doing just to move and shift because there’s some sort of energetic need to move and shift?

Cate Blouke (28:03)
Right.

Sarah Roth (28:23)
Or is the doing because there is a call for action or a call to shift the body into a certain space? So at some level it becomes this idea of could we Settle into more of an insight or a mindfulness to use that kind of overwhelming Term that’s come to me and like a lot of things and nothing all at the same time but could could could we be like more aware of?

the reasons why we’re moving or the reasons why we are not, and recognize that there could be choice around those. So I think a lot of all of this comes back from, comes back to is there awareness and then is there choice? Or is there just movement or being without either of those two things happening? But I love the idea of choice.

Cate Blouke (29:00)
Right.

Sarah Roth (29:14)
Choice is like really important to me, I think. So just really reflecting on this, like, well, why are we doing things? Why are we being things? Why are we moving or not moving? It comes back to whether or not we’re choosing that, or if we are just moving or being or doing without that.

Cate Blouke (29:18)
Say more about that.

Sarah Roth (29:40)
intentionality around it. And so, like you mentioned, sitting on the couch, and that being a sense of maybe a little bit of inertia, or maybe scrolling through Insta, like whatever. If there is a recognition that that’s what’s called for,

Cate Blouke (29:42)
Right.

Sarah Roth (30:02)
then maybe that is what’s needed. And there’s intentionality around it. There’s this idea of like, I’m tired and my brain, my soul, my whatever needs to sit on this couch and like not do anything for 30 minutes because I’m tired and I need to be taken care of is one scenario versus I just checked out and like forgot to have any intention. And then that feels different.

Cate Blouke (30:11)
Yeah. Yeah. It does. I was just like listening to you, I was like, those feel totally different. Like lately my kick has been a couple of times.

Sarah Roth (30:29)
Yes.

Cate Blouke (30:36)
last couple of weeks, like really intentionally getting on my couch and watching some episodes of Fraggle Rock because revisiting Fraggle Rock, it turns out, was like really just beautifully soothing to my nervous system and my like child self. Like there was just something great and yummy and like supportive about that. Versus when I like collapse onto the couch because I’m kind of

Sarah Roth (30:59)
And it’s

Cate Blouke (31:07)
tired and overwhelmed and want to check out like being on my phone or my computer while the TV’s on and just like not really being present to anything that’s going on in my experience for an hour or two. And it…

Sarah Roth (31:25)
is the one who like keeps me a little honest about that because I will tell her because I’m apparently really good at telling other people a lot of things that would be really beneficial to them, right? And so there is any moment where I can be like, hey girl, like you have the CV on and you’re like playing with your like dolls, like do what do you really want to be doing? Could we choose one of those and then not just have endless noise going on? And then,

Cate Blouke (31:34)
I mean, aren’t we all?

Sarah Roth (31:55)
A couple of nights ago, she was like, Mom, you’re like on your phone and you have your show on. Like, what are you doing? And I was like, Yep, you’re right, girl. Off went all of it and we settled into, you know, reading a book actually together. But it’s funny because it’s very easy to just get sucked into the not choosing to just.

Cate Blouke (32:06)
Right? Right? Mm -hmm. Mm.

Sarah Roth (32:24)
of let things go and then have a moment where you’re like, wait, where did that last hour go? Where did that last whatever go? And so I think it’s this idea of even if we’re choosing to snuggle into a couch and watch Fragile Rock, we’re choosing with intentionality to do the self -soothing that we know is needed.

Cate Blouke (32:45)
Thank you.

yeah. And when you said, I mean, there was just something in me that was like, oh, right. It’s so easy to like lose track of choosing. And for me, a lot of that ties into to certainly set my ADHD, but also decision fatigue. If I’m not protecting my energy throughout the day, which…

Sarah Roth (33:09)
Mm -hmm.

Cate Blouke (33:16)
can be a pattern for me of just filling it too full and then I just like don’t have the bandwidth to choose anymore and that’s usually when it happens that I’m like kind of checked out and fried and don’t have it in me to be really intentional about what I’m doing because I like used up all of that capacity.

Sarah Roth (33:34)
Which is like really It’s very much a human nature sort of thing like we we can really only make a certain number of choices during the day and then we just become kind of boggled by it I was talking to a friend of mine and he said I have this thing where in my head I have my top three priorities and

every decision that’s coming my way, I’ve already at some level already filtered it through the priority list in my head. And so if my priorities are my kids, myself, my job, or whatever those like top three priorities are, then any decision comes my way has already been filtered through and can be kind of structured that way. And I was like, I’m really glad that your brain works like that on that computer level, because mine seems to

Cate Blouke (34:21)
Yeah.

Sarah Roth (34:28)
throw in a bunch of other like pieces to that and then it becomes very chaotic. But the idea is we are like, decision fatigue is like a huge thing. And at the end of the day, any number of us are gonna like, like I did crawl into bed and have a TV on and have my phone on and have my daughter call me out because I was just really just didn’t want to make another decision.

Cate Blouke (34:31)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I.

I was listening to you talk about that and I was like, oh my God, that feels like double decision -making. My brain hurts just hearing about that sort of filtering. Like, wouldn’t it be nice if that’s how my brain worked? But yeah, I mean, what also I’m hearing in this is, God, just like the need for self -awareness, self -compassion and self -care that like, even those of us who are, you know, fighting the good fight, preaching the good preach.

Sarah Roth (35:03)
Yeah.

Cate Blouke (35:29)
you know, trying to support clients and humans and listeners and readers in the world to, you know, do the nourishing, supportive we’re not immune from the decision fatigue and the overwhelm and the like need to check out. And that that’s just so human. It’s just so human.

Sarah Roth (35:49)
It is, it is so human. They’re just, they’re, they’re gonna be the moments that we find ourselves mindlessly doing whatever it is and.

bigger important piece around that is to say like, what do we do then when we become aware of that? What sort of self dialogue do we have around that? Or do we do do we engage in that self compassion and say, Oh, look, girl, you’re a whole lot of tired. And you need to just give yourself a minute. It’s fine. Do it, do the thing, do do whatever you need to do this moment to take care of you. The next moment is around the corner and you can have choice.

Cate Blouke (36:20)
Yeah.

Sarah Roth (36:37)
around that one. And so I think to your point, it’s like absolutely important to know that when we have these, we’re never gonna like do it right. We just always get to do a redo. So that’s kind of the nice part about it.

Cate Blouke (36:47)
Yeah. Yeah. And as someone, I write about choice all the time, like choosing our narratives, choosing the stories that we’re telling I just wrote a post about choosing how we like, when we’re looking back at our past, to like look at that with generosity and kindness as opposed to like letting the inner critic take the wheel. But.

Sarah Roth (37:06)
Yeah.

Cate Blouke (37:13)
what’s coming out of this conversation for me is that like, I don’t like, no matter how much I want to, I’m never gonna always be able to make those choices, right? That there are a limited number of choices I can make in a day and sometimes I use them up before I get to that piece. And that’s why autopilot is a thing, right? We go into autopilot because there comes a point where our brains need a break. And I think it’s…

Sarah Roth (37:36)
And I think that that’s like just a kind of brand.

Cate Blouke (37:42)
so important living a purpose -driven, values -driven, fulfilling life is like becoming increasingly aware of that autopilot and choosing when we’re turning it on and when we’re stepping out of the autopilot, right? Yeah.

Sarah Roth (38:02)
almost bring us around to this whole full circle sort of scenario around the body, we would absolutely go crazy if we had to think, okay, heart, you need to keep beating and lungs, you need to keep doing this. And oh, by the way, kidneys, could you like filter things? If there’s a reason why the body and its neurologic signals have any chunk of them.

Cate Blouke (38:19)
I know by the way, can you be in the video?

Sarah Roth (38:31)
put on autopilot, because there simply would not the body as a whole couldn’t do all of that. But it’s also why when that awareness rises up in the physical body to provide insight or to provide whatever, we then can get choice around it. Like we can notice, oh, the heart seems to be beating a little faster than normal. Why is that? Could I tune into something there that I might need to shift or change or do or whatever?

But to that point, the body’s a perfect example of we’re going to need certain things to be on autopilot. And it’s OK for that to be the case. And then it’s OK for those to rise to our awareness and make some sort of choice around it.

Cate Blouke (39:15)
Yeah. So thinking about like the bigger picture, right, of, you the podcast is about claiming our joy and like stepping into the most awesome version of ourselves. What kind of suggestion or invitation would you have around all of this for listeners?

Sarah Roth (39:39)
Well, I loved that your language that just there, your language is all so much physical sort of manifestations, right? Like stepping into your most joyful self, you actually can have a physical manifestation of, I could step into that. Like there is, there is an actual movement or a body structure that could do that. Like the language we use is already set up.

for how do we embody our most joyful self? Like what embody is right there. Like we can do that. What does it look like? Okay, it might look like I have like some pom poms out and I’m just like going for it. It may mean that I, people who know me know that I really love sparkles. So my fingernails are always sparkly. I bought shoes that are covered in sparkles to wear to work.

Cate Blouke (40:33)
Oh my God, Sarah. Okay, A, I love that you just noticed that, because I hadn’t, which is great, and which is just a key moment of like, this is why we need other people to reflect things back to us.

Sarah Roth (40:36)
Like whatever it is, you could have a physical manifestation of that and that be your reminder. I can step into my joy and I can embody that part of my life that I want to be that way. Our language has all worked.

Cate Blouke (41:01)
And Sarah and I have never met in person and so I did not know how much you love sparkles. I also love glitter. So it completely makes sense that we have we have been, you know, spirit sisters.

Sarah Roth (41:07)
Yes.

We have found one another because we are Sparkle Sisters, yes.

Cate Blouke (41:19)
Yes, indeed. I love that. I love that. So Sarah, where can people find you if they listen to this episode and they’re like, I want to talk to that lady? How can they go about doing that?

Sarah Roth (41:33)
The best way to reach me is probably through my website, head to heart fulfillment .com. I’m happy, always happy to have more conversations around this and invite people into their fullest, thriviest self.

Cate Blouke (41:41)
Beautiful. Yeah.

Yeah. Awesome. And I will put those things in the show notes. And final question for you, Sarah, in addition to sparkles. What brings you joy?

Sarah Roth (42:00)
Oh my gosh, gummy bears, the ocean and my kids, yeah. Thank you.